Family member going to be "nanny" - north london - no idea what we need to do - please help!

[ISNT]

I hope someone can help! A close relative is going to be looking after the children while I work, she will be doing it in our house. We are going to be paying her and want to do it all "properly". Neither of us has any idea about the basics - so if anyone could answer our questions we'd be very grateful!

1. What the going rate for someone unqualified to work as a non live-in nanny (is that what it's called?) in north west london?

1. Does she register as self employed and do her tax through self assessment or does it work another way? She is already self-employed doing something else and is confortable with this

1. What are the legal requirements? Are there any? I think she has to be CRB checked - how do we go about doing that? Are there any other requirements (first aid etc?)

1. If she wanted to get a childcare qualification while doing this, what sort of courses are available (we'd pay for her to do it)

1. Anything else i haven't thought of?!!!

TIA

1. Live-out nanny is the term you're looking for ! The going rate is about 8-10pph net (although you should agree a gross wage for contract purposes).

1. Nannies are normally employed not self-employed. It is possible to be a self-emplyed nanny, but I think it's quite complex, probably more straightforward for you to register as an employer and do it that way.

1. There are no legal requirements to be a nanny as it's a private arrangement between you and her. However, I would strongly advise that she take out nanny insurance. A first-aid qualification is always a good thing to have when dealing with young kids, so again advisable but not required. CRB check is probably unnecessary if she is close family and you are satisfied she doesn't have a criminal past.

1. There are quite a few that can be done via home-learning. I think Diploma in Home-Based Childcare is possibly a good one, though aimed more at childminders than nannies. Introduction to Childcare Practice (ICP) may be a good starting point if she has no qualifications in childcare. If she has some weekdays free, maybe look into what's available at your local colleges.

1. If you want to register with OFSTED then the insurance, CRB, First Aid and childcare qualification become requirements. However, I don't think you are able to register a member of the family as your nanny, at least not for the purposes of childcare vouchers. I could be wrong though....nannynick or someone may be able to give you more accurate advice about this.

You employ her, minimum wage at least, more typically £8+ gross per hour. Would you feel comfortable doing the payroll yourself or would you outsource to a payroll company?

Nothing is required, unless you're registering with OFSTED, but depending on the kind of relative you may not be able to benefit from childcare vouchers. In which case they will need a common core childcare qualification - the ICP, the new CYPOP 5 (although some places haven't implemented this yet) or MNT's distance learning course, a pads 1st aid course (prob the 12 hours) and nanny insurance. OFSTED would do the CRB.

Qualificationwise what kind of qualification? One that would enable them to work in other settings? Now isn't a great time to be looking into it as it's all up in the air! The old range are being withdrawn and replaced by the new Diploma, which in theory would be available by distance learning as a nanny. But noone really knows at the moment, even those who are supposedly offering it.

A note on insurance - it's definitely advisable but the insurance company may refuse cover, depending how close the relationship is. Best to call them up and see.

Thanks for the answers! She is a cousin. I'm surprised that a CRB isn't required. I suppose the employing her thing and payroll is so that we would pay her tax and NI? That sounds like it's going to get complicated!

And we don't have to register with OFSTED (that sounds better than having to register!).

Qualification-wise, she was thinking about applying as a teaching assistant before we asked if she would do this, so I don't think she's interested in childminding, more any qualifications which would help if she wanted to get into TA / nursery type employment later.

Pay wise you can pay anything from National Minimum Wage upwards. I would say probably a bit more than NMW given you are in London, so say £7 per hour Gross upwards.

A payroll company (List of companies on this message thread) will help produce payslips, calculate amounts payable and remind you when to transfer payments to HMRC.

As they have other income, you may need to give them a P46 (HMRC will supply various forms when you register as an employer) which they may complete stating that your job is their Second Job/Not their primary income. That would then probably result in the job being fully taxed (rather than using personal tax allowance). Should not overly complicate things, though is important that you agree the Gross salary, not take home salary (net).

Payroll Calculator will let you play with salary figures and tax codes to show you how much it will end up costing you, once Employers NI has been added on to the cost. For more info about taxation, see www.hmrc.gov.uk/PAYE

3. What are the legal requirements? Are there any? I think she has to be CRB checked - how do we go about doing that? Are there any other requirements (first aid etc?)

There are no legal requirements at all regarding nannies. You won't be able to get a CRB check done, as that has to be done via an agency/regulator. She's a family member anyway, so you should know a lot about the person's history. Do you have any cause for concern?

First Aid would be desirable but many parents don't have first aid training. A good course for a childcarer or indeed a parent is Early Years First Aid.

4. If she wanted to get a childcare qualification while doing this, what sort of courses are available (we'd pay for her to do it)

Cache Level 3 Diploma Childcare is the most suitable I'd say for various childcare jobs (rather than just nannying). Problem however is that the Diploma is 1009 hours at college and 750 hours at various placements. So not really possible at the same time as working.
There are some distance learning courses but I wouldn't recommend that route, as it can take a long time and not give the experience of working in various childcare settings.

NEC are offering the new Level 3 Childcare Course, details are a little sketchy though. For example it says that someone has to be working in a childcare setting... would nannying count? It may be possible... or it might not.

Cousin I don't think is counted as a close relative. If she was an aunt of your children, then that would be a close relative.

Not that it matters, as you don't seem to be wanting to go down the Ofsted registration route.

Teaching assistants are trained on the job... though looking at some adverts for TA's, they do quite often say something like: It would be an advantage if the successful candidate has had experience of using the EYFS curriculum.

A nanny does not have to do EYFS curriculum. That would apply in Pre-School and Nursery. So nursery experience would be useful to be a TA but nannying probably isn't useful. If their time available lets them help out at a pre-school, then that may help towards getting a TA job.

Tax/NI payroll side of things should not be too complicated, as long as the job is either done as their Primary job (so using all of their personal tax allowance) or if their self-employed income is high enough to use all their personal allowance, then do your job at Basic Rate taxcode.

Payroll companies will sort it out for you as part of their £120ish per year fee (actual charge varies between nanny payroll companies).

How many hours would she be working a week?

This is all very interesting thank you.

We have no concerns about her at all, I just thought that everyone who went within a mile of a child had to be CRB checked these days, especially if they were being paid. Must have got the wrong end of the stick there.

She will be doing 21 hours a week over 3 days, i think. We want to pay her a good rate and were thinking of £9/10 net so maybe £12 gross does that sound fair?

As for the training I will let her have a look into it herself, or if she wants to do something unrelated we can help her out with that. It's more that i don't want the time she spends doing this to stop her with anything she wants to develop for the future IYSWIM. So that's fine.

I will look into the "being an employer" stuff. Is there any reason that she can't just add the income onto her other earnings and do it all on her tax return? Is it a legal/HMRC rule thing? Or is it just the way it's normally done IYSWIM. We could pay her NI stamps separately for her (I know that is possible).

Thanks again

Just been looking at the net and I can see that we need to employ her - yes it makes sense. I hope it isn't too complicated - I have no idea how much her other work pays, whether it would use up her personal allowance or not. Now probably, when it goes up to £10K, not so sure.....

£12 gross is more than I get as a qualified, experienced nanny working in Home Counties near the M25. So to me, £12 gross seems very high for someone unqualified.

21 hours a week would be seen by an HMRC status officer (in my opinion, though you never do really know for sure) as being a job which as it's nannying the relationship would be seen as that of Employer Employee. It's about the relationship - someone self employed is calling the shots. Whereas with a nanny, you want to be able tell them what to do, when to work.

I'm just within the M25 and am unqualified with 25 years experience. I get £11 gross, so I think £12 gross is a lot for unqualified (and relatively inexperienced by the sound of it) in NW London.

£12 gross is a generous wage, you could pay less than this and it still be a good wage. I'm basing this on West London where I am.

Yes having read a bit I think that it is clear that this will be an employer/employee relationship. I guess I need to investigate these payroll companies.

Thanks for the feedback about pay rates as well that is very helpful .

The course nick linked to was offered for the last time starting this September (in most colleges) as, according to the NDAQ, its accreditation has been withdrawn as of 31/12/2010 to prepare the way for the one-size-fits-all diploma route.

The DHC is being withdrawn in December as well as pretty much all the childcare qualifications anyone in the industry has just managed to get to grips with.

In theory you should be able to become a TA with the new diploma but it's a bit if a waiting game right now... Plus there's the issue if which pathway to take, but that's a whole different debate!

£12 gross is a lot. £10 gross would be a really good wage for an unqualified, inexperienced nanny even if you were using a higher rate tax code.

Nick you are overcomplicating things a little - the other work is self employed and does not therefore count for PAYE (they try to make the P46 friendly by saying is this your only job but what it really means is: is this your only employment). And the concept of 'primary income' has nothing to do with it.

But if you use a payroll agency, you don't have to worry about it - just give them a call and some details and they will register you with HMRC, send you forms for her to fill in and everything.

Otherwise, it's all good .

Phew well that's a relief!

Any recommendations for payroll agencies? I'll investigate doing it myself as well (am reasonable at that sort of thing and do my own tax return at the mo etc) but I think for ease one of these agencies will probably be the way to go

www.payefornannies.co.uk is the usual one I suggest. Though only because my boss seems happy with them and I get my payslips on time without hassles.

Thanks nannynick I will have a look around and compare prices.

Thanks everyone for all your help with this, I have a much better idea what we're doing now! Now I just need to get the job...