baby signing... really

[thebody]

seriously am i getting too old and cynical but really!! baby signing!!! has the world gone mad...

clicked on to the website and apparantly I no longer have to guess whether mindees are hungry/cold/wet/scared/drunk(made that up).. i should know because they can sign to me and I can underststand....

is it me.. or do I know that by instinct and knowledge allready.. or dare I say commen sense....

god its bad enough when kids actually can bloody well talk without including the ones who cant yet verbalise....

i can only think that parents who subscribe to this dont have teens.. god for the gift of silence then!!!

there seems to be an industry and a job for any silly crap these days.. gaar gaar and goo goo(that means pour me some wine btw)

I did signing with my DD and we got a lot out of it in our house. But yes, I don't have teens and at the time most of my conversations were with a baby DD, so it was nice that she had a bit of a wider vocabulary than gaar gaar goo goo because of signing.

we did signing, but never went to a class, just got a book from the library.
it was really lovely to get little glimpses into DD's head, we taught her signs for various animals and she would be signing when we couldn't see the animal, then we'd spot some little picture or something she'd spotted, and she was visibly thrilled that we understood what she was excited about.
soppy, yes, but hey ho, that's what being a parent to a baby is all about no?

I do arf but actually I did sign with my youngest, things like Home/drink/hungry and that's it as he was not PFB but NSC

there are devotees who swear by baby signing - that's great, say I - but if you are tuned in to your child (or mindee on our case) then you will instinctively be alert for cues, body language, gestures, facial expression and yes do it anyway

Actually yes, perhaps it is soppy. I remember how touched my FIL felt when DD signed that she wanted to show him the birds in the garden.

Just realised this is in childminders/nannies. You make it sound like all the communication you need with the babies is basic needs stuff (nappy/hungry etc) - that's not true is it?

I do signing with my charge. She's 16 months now and has quite a few words as well as signa. She can tell me she wants to find the puppy book, she can sign "look at the (whatever)(usually bird/bicycle/boat/children) she can tell me in signs that her baby is tired (so cute! She does the rocking baby sign then puts her hand on her cheek and goes "ahh" then snores lol lol lol)

So yes I think signing can help increase the level of communication in pre verbalizing children. Its certainly fun!

I do signing with my charge. She's 16 months now and has quite a few words as well as signa. She can tell me she wants to find the puppy book, she can sign "look at the (whatever)(usually bird/bicycle/boat/children) she can tell me in signs that her baby is tired (so cute! She does the rocking baby sign then puts her hand on her cheek and goes "ahh" then snores lol lol lol)

So yes I think signing can help increase the level of communication in pre verbalizing children. Its certainly fun!

yep get all of the above comments but isnt it a personal thing between each child/parent/minder??? surely not a standard language..couldnt it also become a bit of a barrier to actual language development.. pehaps thats not true...

i just feel that whole industrys have sprung up recently to tell parents and carers the simply bloody obvious..

a poster mentioned buying the book.. so someone somewhere is making a profit!!!

of course if its fun and an oppertunity for parents/carers to meet with other adults and have a cuppa with baby then of course why not..

but theres no new mystery here is there?

I don't think its anything "new". Babies and toddlers all can be "taught" certain gestures meaning certain things. I think its a good thing though when it facilitates communication. I know my charge smiles and claps when I "get" what she is trying to tell me. And sometimes what she "tells" me could not be deduced unless she was signing iyswim. I use a mix of American sign language and our own little signs too.

I don't think its anything "new". Babies and toddlers all can be "taught" certain gestures meaning certain things. I think its a good thing though when it facilitates communication. I know my charge smiles and claps when I "get" what she is trying to tell me. And sometimes what she "tells" me could not be deduced unless she was signing iyswim. I use a mix of American sign language and our own little signs too.

I think it is rubbish-if you are tuned into your baby you can have your own signs and work out what they want. The funniest thing (but very sad really) was a woman I saw who was chatting and entirely ignoring her baby who was trying her best to get the mother's attention and the mother was saying that she was going to go to baby signing lessons. The baby was already trying to communicate-all she needed was a bit of response!

I'm 50/50 on this..... But the first thing that enters my head is the little boy off of the film Meet the Fockers....

We loved baby signing, my son was so pleased to be able to communicate and he said all sorts of things I wouldn't have picked up from just being in tune with him - like doing the sign for pain over his mouth when he was teething, like telling us he'd like to go and see trees in the park, like telling us he'd like to go swimming - yes I can tell the essentials from being with him but he told me so much more from signing. After all, it's pretty clear we can learn a lot more about people when they can talk and signing is a first step to talking. TBH, I always feel a bit sorry for non-signing babies and parents, seems to me they are missing something which is great fun to do together.

I also actually thought the most important impact was on me - it made me realise just how capable my son was of listening and communicating with me long before he could talk. For example it really surprised me when I said one day to him, aged about 13 months 'we're going to the park' and he immediately signed 'ducks'. I didn't realise before that he was capable of thinking things through like that. I also noticed that when I talked about something in his hearing he would often do any signs when he heard me say the words - again made me much more aware of how much he was understanding.

Oh, and you can do it all for free by watching Something Special and looking at the baby signing dictionary at itv.com.

Plus, if there are any problems in language development later on signing is a huge plus - from my work with people with special needs I am in awe of the difference which using signing means to them, and the earlier you start the better...can't see why you wouldn't do it, really!

I learnt Makaton sign language (which is what they do on "Something Special") as I used to mind a child with special needs, and it was an important method of communication for him.

Other minded children I had at the time also learnt to sign; I have continued to do many of the basic signs with subsequent children over the years.

I love the fact that a pre-verbal child can communicate their exact needs, it may take a while to second-guess what a young child wants (you have to work your way through drink/cuddle/food/nappy!)

You always say out loud what it is you are signing, so using signing at a young age has never delayed speech.

I find signing a huge aid when working with multilingual children. You use the sign (I do makaton as well) to the words which correspond in both languages and IMO it enhances the communicative ability because if they know the sign in one language they can communicate it and get the word in the other as long as you talk and sign plus the physical act of signing promotes feedback and creates pathway in the brain. It's a bit like revising with scented pens and using them as triggers in an exam.

When I went to visit my niece and nephew when they were 18 months they hadn't started to speak yet and I taught them a couple of little signs. Now at the age of 2.9 they can both speak very well, but the one sign that has stuck with them is the sign for 'Please' - they say the word and make the sign at the same time, it's so cute

And of course the reason to use standardised signs rather than just making up your own gestures is that other people can understand - particularly important for children who go to childminders or nursery!

I'm with starberries on the please/thank you sign, it's lovely - my son did it yesterday at a restaurant and the waiter was very impressed because it looks like he was blowing a kiss!

I think it's great!
I too learned Makaton when working at a pre school,initially to use with a special needs child,but we implemented it into the whole group
children pick these things up really easily,and it meant they could all communicate with this particular little girl,which was great as she had very little speech

If a baby / child is able to "tell" their carer what they need / want / feel before they can talk ...

How can this be a bad thing?!!!

It's good when they can "get it". I remember taking ds when he was just 4 months old. lol. Then again at 10/11 months, when it was much more useful. DS never really did loads of it, but certainly some signs were used and he had some of his own signs. It was just about reducing frustration. But I have to say that at 4 months, I went weekly for a 6 week "course" and neither of us got anything out of it, besides a nice little group to go to and smile and chat a bit. I said in the first session "I htink ds is a bit young... maybe we should hold off until he's older" and I was told "no, no.... babies should start from day 1". I know many do this, but I'm just not convinced that it sinks in until they start actually remembering things more.

Well I'm only a mum and almost certainly have less experience being around children than the OP. But I found it incredibly useful and rewarding. Yes, I could already tell when my DD wanted food or milk or sleep etc. But until I did signing she couldn't show me that she knew the ducks in the park were similar to the yellow rubber duck in her bath. And she could only really ask for something such as a toy if she could point to it or take me to it. With signing she could ask for things she couldn't see.

And I don't think it's affected her language development, considering that she never stops talking (but how can you ever tell as children are so different?)

But I do agree that you don't need to spend lots of money on classes, you can look up the signs fairly easily or just make up your own.

I'm also only a mum of 2 but makaton (via Something Special and a book bought from charity shop) has enhanced my relationship with DD1 - as a pp said, it helped me realise when she was connecting ideas but could not communicate the connection verbally.

As for the argument re: delaying verbal communication, I would suppose the opposite. Vygotsky argues that humans are inherently social and that the process of establishing effective communication - known as semiotic mediation - can take place via several concurrent pathways (manual, verbal, non-verbal etc.). Development on one pathway can help scaffold development on the next. It makes sense when you think about the fact that a baby making a sign for a word that they cannot yet say will generally:
a) prompt specific relevant verbal inputs from his/her caregiver in response to the sign;
b) receive additional positive reinforcement for his/her communicative intent;
c) receive additional positive reinforcement of related concepts and ideas when caregiver signs and/or speaks in response.
All of the above really boils down to the fact that words are useful 'symbols' (and the accepted mode of human communication) but are relatively difficult to encode in a child's memory insofar as actually reproducing the word (associating phonemes, semantic information, complex movements of the mouth and voicebox etc.). A gesture / sign requires far less in the way of fine-tuning, so can be produced earlier, but the gesture also serves as a kind of bridge to the more complicated symbol i.e. the word, so the process of encoding words is rendered easier rather than harder.

Disclaimer: Am developmental psychologist not cognitive psychologist.

I also think my DD was speaking so well so early because of the way signing really broke down language.
While you might say "come on then lets get our coats on we're going outside now" - you just sign "coat" "out".
I think bringing language to the basics like that helps with learning.

"or do I know that by instinct and knowledge allready.. or dare I say commen sense...."

No, not everything can be learnt by common sense. I signed with my DD, and at 13 months, she was able to tell me that she was scared of the dark. I had never realised, it had never even come into my head, until she started signing "light" one journey home in the dark. It had been a period of night waking, and I had tried everything to get my DD to go to sleep, b ut that night, it clicked and I left the light on and from that night onwards, she never had another disturbed night's sleep.

There are so many other stories, that I could repeat, like I never knew how much my 10month old loved washing machines until she used to sign to ask to sit in front of the washing machine! In her hey day, she was using over 100 signs - everything from washing machine, to asking to go to see the ducks, from telling me she wanted toast / yoghurt ... for her lunch. Stuff, that you just simply cannot guess alone.

Further, it did not inhibit her language either. By the age of 2, she had over 500 words in her vocabularly (I know, she was doing a university research project at the time, and I had to record her words), and most of those words she first signed and developed from there.

All the research also shows that baby signing helps to develop a child's language skills too. Before you knock it, try giving it a try - after all, as a professional surely you want to do what is in your mindees best interests?

(PS. It takes minimal effort too. I never attended any classes, I just consistently did the signs as I spoke - so it became second nature to us).

thebody: "god its bad enough when kids actually can bloody well talk without including the ones who cant yet verbalise.... "

Well, I have to say that given that comment I'm surprised you have chosen to be a childminder. You don't sound particularly fond of children...

I have been teaching baby signing for three years and have had nothing but positive comments from parents/grandparents/health visitors etc. etc. I have many parents come back with second and third babies because they have been so appreciative of the benefits of signing.

Your comments show a great deal of ignorance - baby signing has been shown time and again to be an incredibly positive thing to do with children. It encourages speech, helps with confidence, promotes bonding, relieves frustration. So many children start school with less than adequate communication skills these days that anything we can do to rectify this has to be a positive thing.

As others have said here, it is not just about communicating needs (although that is of course useful) - what is wonderful is that it gives you an insight into a child's thoughts and ideas, although I guess you may not care about that if they are "only" your mindees and not your own children....

Many childminders and nurseries use signing with their charges and find it a great asset.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I do have a teenager...

''god its bad enough when kids actually can bloody well talk without including the ones who cant yet verbalise....

i can only think that parents who subscribe to this dont have teens.. god for the gift of silence then!!!''

You should probably look at some other job where you do not have to listen to children or keep up with any new demands...