Please help 2nd Au pair and we just don't "fit"

[stoppingat3]

Just wanted some thoughts on the situation I find myself in,
This is teh second au pair that we have had. First one or the summer was brilliant good with children, us and house, all round star. Lots of tears when she left.
We were fully prepared not to find someone as good but I think I kind of knew from theoff that we weren't going to get along.
There are lots of silly niggling things but it basically comes down to her having no personal skills, or idea of boundaries, for example anything I try to explain she says "I knoooow" like I am an idiot for telling her to please be careful when she comes out of our drive. We invited her to a family dinner and she talked about herself the whole time, understandabl being new and perhaps nervous but she is quite loud and it was a bit much.
When I am out of the house working I think I can make it worse but when I am home she is driving me mad. She will come into our bedroom, pick up my shoes and comment on the heel etc etc. She will also sit on the table when talking and today jumped over from the back of the car into the front with shoes on.
For want of a better description she is very very streetwise.
DH thinks I should ring the agency for advice which I think is a good idea, I have obviously tried to talk to her a little but it really is her personality that is rubbing me up the wrong way.
Can I ask for any advice, has anyone experienced anything similar and how did you deal with it? I really don't like confrontation but she is meant to be making my life easier (I work 2 jobs and have a DH who is absent a lot of the time due to work) . Instead I am feeling stressed in my home.
Thank you in advance

apologies for typos, am hiding in bedroom typing in bed!

Hi
What is her nationality?

Czech. Our previous one was French

Was just thinking some cultures more outgoing then ours.
You need to give her time to settle in I think. She will soon get used to your ways too. Ie your maybe not wanting a chat right now etc. She is probably a little home sick and unsure. Once she starts language school meets other au pair she will settle down.
One of the advantages of having an au pair is meeting people different to you, try to embrace her. As long as she is good with your children, I would be happy.
But if still unhappy in a couple of weeks expect she will be too. And maybe you can sort a move out.

The good news is she seems a generally happy person, chatty (nothing worse for DCs than a morose au pair) and settling in.

The bad news is that if her personality irritates you now, she isn't getting hints that you're dropping and you don't think you can cope a year of this behaviour you need to bite the bullet sooner rather than later. What does your contract say re: probation, house rules, termination?

To be honest I think the chat needs to come from you rather than the agency. By all means ask their advice, see what they say etc but I'd leave actively putting them between you and the au pair until you've had a go at sorting it yourself. If she has no idea that what she's doing is bugging you - and maybe it's normal in her family - she might feel very put on the spot if the agency rings to give her a telling off. Much better if you can do it in a friendly way.

To help you cope I suggest setting some simple ground rules - your room is out of bounds, you want time to relax on your own in the evening, no sitting on tables/jumping through the car (say it sets a bad example to DCs) a d anything else that comes to mind. Feel free to use MN as a sounding board if you want to know what is or isn't reasonable.

Thank you for your help, please keep the worse off scenarios coming, they help!
She is ok with the children, a little brusque for my liking and a bit too sarcastic, when my three year old said she could teach her to play snap she said "noo you cannot know the rules properly" in fact she does, thats being the youngest of 3!

I take the point about the chat coming from me, I want to speak to the agency and see if they can give me any advice. When she started we gave her initial description etc but said that we would have a more detailed one when my DH was home and we could work one out. I will forward this draft onto agency today to see what they think.
Dh included the line, "whilst we welcome you into the family and want to feel at home please remember that you are an employee" I don't really think we can include this but will see what the agency say.

One of the problems I think is that we are fairly close in age (8 years gap) and I think she is treating me like a friend rather than someone to respect iyswim?

Don't get me wrong I do want to be friendly but I just wish she could make herself a little less of a big presence in the house. Another example is this morning when she was sitting watching TV while I was trying to get the two eldest out of the door. Today is a "work" day but my youngest was in my bed with her milk so technically she wasn't needed but her sitting there made the boys want to watch Tv(she does have a TV and wifi in her room)

She just seems to irrate me and I need to work on that

I wouldn't put that line in a contract - IMO they should be kept clean, simple and businesslike. It wouldn't be completely out of place in a handbook with very detailed job descriptions, house rules etc as long as the au pair is clear about the relationship beforehand.

Having a contract should make the business side of things clearer to her. It also gives you a chance to go through it with her and reiterate your expectations such as no TV when she is supposed to be working. Instead she could have been helping get the boys out the door, putting out clothes for the little one, clearing the table or getting on with a job.

What's her work schedule like? Does she have time to sit and watch TV during 'work' hours or is the list of jobs expected to take the 5 hours a day or so she works? More importantly do you mind if she watches TV or would you prefer that was kept to her room in her off time?

If you do end up deciding to change au pair (if you talk to her, establish some boundaries, and nothing changes) then I encourage you to go for someone older. Having had such a disaster with a 25 year old 3 years ago that I hadn't wanted another au pair, I just tried again with an 18 year old and she's wonderful. So teachable, and enthusiastic in all the right ways.

I was only 30 when we had the previous au pair, and I think this was a big part of the problem.

Checkmate - that is the same I am 30 and this girl is 22. I thought that an older one would be more responsible but perhaps too much so.
Have just spoken to Agency and I need to bite the bullet and discuss things with her.

Good luck with the discussion.

Quick tiup: Write down what you want to say and be clear with her. Get her to have a dictionary nearby in case you come across a word she doesn't understand!

From a non-employer perspective the worst thing is when someone clearly has something they're trying to convey but they don't come out and say it. It means you're second-guessing what they mean and that's even worse if it's not your first langauge you're doing it in. For example:

"My bedroom is my space, I'd like you to respect that just as I will respect yours" is much better than "I really like to have my own space to unwind and relax so you coming into my bedroom feels a bit awkward, but I want you to feel at home here". The second gives mixed signals so even though you might be trying to soften the blow but say 'keep out of my room', she might hear 'sometimes she's not in the mood for a gossip but I can knock and see'!

When you have your chat it would be good if you could have a clear written schedule and list of house rules. Often following a longish, high pressure conversation without written aids can be difficult and it also means you're less likely to wander off track.

Good advice from Frak.. You often have to state things very clearly in simple to understand terms.

Definitely speak with her rather than getting your agency to raise issues with her..

Regarding the mealtime - is it the first time she has eaten with the family..? Maybe she was keen to try to make a good impression and was actually a little nervous.

Frakkin that is extremely good advice, regarding how to put things, esp when it's not the person's native tounge.

OP - there is a plus side that you had agreed to go through the details of the role as it now gives you the opp to put everything down and go through it with her.

The sitting on the table thing reminds me of the French AP we trialled who put her cereal bowl to her lips and gulped down the remains of her milk. DD (then 3) thought: Great idea! I'll do the same. If she'd stayed with us longer, I would have had to ask her not to do that in front of the children. I think you'll just have to do the same, explaining it's not a behaviour you'd want your children to take up. On the bright side the car and the table is more straighforward than telling something they have bad table manners, so hopefully this will cheer you up!

I think you have to see how maturely she takes your feedback. This would be the deciding factor for me, whether she stays.

When APs first arrive I sit them down every evening and discuss what has gone well and what hasn't. I also allow the APs to have their say. It is a good way of establishing the boundaries and reinforcing the house rules. It is also means that anything annoying (from either side - I recognise that I have the potential to be annoying) doesn't build up until there is an explosion.

I have lots of Eastern European relations, including Czech and sometimes they can appear quite brusque with my children, it's a manner thing. Lots of Eastern Europeans use directives, 'you go and get that' rather than 'please would you mind going to get that' and it comes over as very blunt. Obviously that's not the whole of the story, but I just thought it was worth pointing out that her phrases and way of interacting with the children may seem different, my relation would definitely say 'no, you can't do that' to something and then be pleasantly surprised when the children can. Not excusing this entirely and other boundaries need setting, but just thought I'd add that.

Thank you for your comments, we had a little chat tonight where we discussed a few things but I have told her the handbook will be a few days coming!
I take the point about the culture thing, I think that is a factor on top of the fact that she is a very forward girl. Tonight she came into my room (after I had discussed not coming inthe other day and with door shut) to offer me her dress to go to court in tomorrow (I'm a lawyer not criminal!). Inappropriate in many ways (not to mention a strapless short boob dress that would get me the wrongtype of attention!).
One point that I pulled her up on earlier was when my daughter (3) said "I want an apple" and she said "I want you to be a good girl but you are not". Please tell me I was right to say that she is a good girl and that she (the AP) should just ask her to say please.

ARGGGHHHH Just don't need this!

Sorry I typed older earlier, when I meant younger... I think you read my meaning right though!

My au pair telling DD she is not a good girl would really make me angry. I would tell the AP that you speak positively to your children, and you want her to do the same. Even when she does something naughty, your DD is still a good girl; if she feels labeled "not a good girl" she will behave as such and become a nightmare.

she is very very streetwise

shoot her

you want a person to control

take my advice - if she annoys you, you have to change. i have had 8 years of aua pairs, 7 of them have been fantastic (all in different ways, some messy, some good at coooking, others not) but i had one that was a total madam and irritated the H*ell out of me and was not nice to my ds. I now regret deeply not calling it off sooner - if you do not click it will not be nice for her or for your children......i know it alot of unheaval, but you children dont deserve to be told they are not good for asking for an apple!

sorry just read that and it sounds like the measure of niceness is if my au pairs can cook and are tidy - thats not what i meant. What i meant to say was that there is no such thing as the perfect au pair, they are all different and have different talents, just like the rest of us. but sometimes it really doesnt click