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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Is paying for childminders holidays normal?

30 replies

kermit123 · 31/08/2010 16:24

My little girl has been with her current childminer since she was 5 months old. She is approaching her 2nd birthday. We are very happy with the care that is provided, however, there is one thing that is causing us concern.

The childminder asks that when WE are on holiday we pay half fee's for the time we are away. Fair enough...

Shje also then askes that when SHE is on holdiday we pay half fee's. Is this normal as it seems strange. I understand that when we are away we have to pay to'hold the place' but if she is away we have to arrange time off work (which is not easy) and also pay half fee's for a place that is not even there to hold!

please let me know if this is normal, if not, what do I do and what are my rights to complain?

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Northernlurker · 31/08/2010 16:32

If you've signed a contract agreeing to this I don't think there is much you can do tbh.
It does seem unfair unless she gives you some choice of dates? Or is it totally up to her when she goes?

muddleduck · 31/08/2010 16:32

CMs can offer whatever fee structure they like - it is then up to the parents to decide if we want to use the service that they provode. You have no 'rights to complain' - you simply decide whether or not you agree to her terms (which are presumably in the contract that you have with her).

Do you know if her rates are typical for the area?

FWIW I don't pay my current CM when she is on holiday. Our previous CM did get 3 weeks paid holiday, but her hourly rate was lower so overall we paid about the same per year. Actually I preferred the latter as it made the monthly costs the same throuout the year, but I can understand for others this might not work so well.

The only situation that I'd not be happy with is if a CM had paid holiday without a clear limit on how much was to be take per year.

stomp · 31/08/2010 16:45

Sounds quite normal, although I prefer parents to pay full fees when they are on holiday and nothing for mine.
When I?m open I expect to get paid for the contracted hours, if I close due to my holiday or illness then i do not expect payment.

Original poster

kermit123 · 31/08/2010 16:59

thsi is great, thanks eveyone, excuse ranting, buit it just feels very unfair that we cannot afford a holiday and are paying £15 a be greatly inconvenienced and then have no holiday allowance left for when we choose to take it...

OP posts:

AnnieLobeseder · 31/08/2010 17:03

I wouldn't expect to pay for a CM's holiday any more than I would expect to pay a nursery if they were closed.

However, I think CM's who charge half rate when you go on holiday are very generous since a nursery would still charge you full rate. I guess the difference is that CM's charge by the hour (usually), not a set monthly fee.

usernamechanged345 · 31/08/2010 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sorrento56 · 31/08/2010 17:04

This comes up so often I wonder why people don't talk things though properly at the beginning.

Some CM's want it all their own way. They want to be self-employed therefore they don't work for the parents but then they want holiday pay which self-employed people don't get.

skidoodly · 31/08/2010 17:05

It's pretty nice of her to charge only half fees when you're away. We pay our childminder her full fees when we are away.

I wouldn't be happy to pay when CM was away, but TBH financially it would be a better deal for me if we had the same fee structure as you describe.

LadyBiscuit · 31/08/2010 17:07

I pay full fees whether I'm away and when she is too. It's normal round here. I synchronise my holidays with hers as much as possible.

muggglewump · 31/08/2010 17:11

I pay my CM when she has DD and only then.
I know I'm very lucky to have her.

In fact, she picked DD up from school a couple of weeks ago as I had an appointment, she lives 5 minutes from school and I was waiting for them when they got back. She didn't charge me at all for that as she'd not really looked after her.

I love my Childminder

jumpforjoy · 31/08/2010 17:18

When I was a childminder, I would charge full payment when they went on holiday, but no payment when I went away.

You must agree to all circumstances when you sign the contract.

Try also to arrange holidays at the same time, and if CM takes time off, ask if she knows anyone else who can CM for you while she is away, so you don't have to take additional time off.

ForzaDelDestino · 31/08/2010 17:31

It must seem very confusing because as you can see, each CM sets their own t and c

You can ask for a contract review to discuss this issue

Bear in mind that her hourly fees may be lower than a CM who does not charge for their hols and so you may end up paying more if you go elsewhere

If you are having trouble co-ordinating her hols and yours then ask for more notice of her holiday dates - eg I issue my holiday dates for the year starting January x x x x in the October of the previous year

Northernlurker · 31/08/2010 17:43

Not all nurserys charge full fees when you choose to take a holiday. Mine doesn't - 1/2 fees only. Tis a boon!

aceandskill · 31/08/2010 19:22

This does come up a lot. I am currently trying to work out what I should charge and can't square it morally with myself to charge when a child is not there, unless they are ill. If it's a planned absence, how can I charge? CMs charging for their own holiday i think is taking the p*. As a self employed person it makes more sense to adjust fees so that a decent living is made without having to charge for work that's not been done. Also, I really can't understand the concept of charging for 'holding' a place for someone e.g during school hols. Are you charging for not getting another mindee in to take over when they are there? Or just charging to keep their space on the sofa warm for when they get back?

Having said that, if you sign something that says you are happy to do this then you are legally obliged to pay and this is of course, fair enough.

ForzaDelDestino · 31/08/2010 19:26

yes ace, you are charging for holding the space as it's nearly impossible to get short term placements during holiday time and the CM still needs to get an income

It's up to you of course, how you charge

xoxcherylxox · 31/08/2010 19:32

the reason that childminders charge when i child is not there even if a planned absence is becauce why should the childminder lose out on income due to no fault or her own she is in her house up ready to work. what if all the children took a holiday at the sametime thats one day maybe one full week with no income when you were actually quite happy to actually work. people still pay a months phone line rental or sky tv pack even though they go away on holiday for 1 week maybe 2 and get no use from it what so ever

Northernlurker · 31/08/2010 19:56

I think most people accept you should pay for a place when you choose to take a holiday but the provider is open. It's paying when the service is not available that sticks in people's throats!

aceandskill · 31/08/2010 20:21

I have been self employed for years in other capacities, it's not your right to be paid when not working even though you are willing and able to work. This is unique to the childminding business - unless anyone knows of a builder who is charging for sitting around being able and willing to work but having nothing to build at that time? Not sure the sky TV analogy wors either but can't think why not just yet....
As for parents being happy to pay - that's because they don't have a choice and it's firmly ingrained in the childminding ethos to charge for 'holding' spaces. Nurserys are probably to blame somehow...

looneytune · 31/08/2010 20:23

I charge full fee if I'm open and they're off through no fault of my own. I don't charge anything if I'm closed for whatever reason. If you'd have said you were paying full when she's on holiday then I'd say that's not fair (although totally up to her what she charges and down to you what you agree to - a lot of people do charge for their hols, I just don't personally agree with that), BUT, you said you pay half whoever is on hols, when to me that's equal to paying full for youe hols and nothing for hers. Some people prefer it that way, others don't.

Afraid you have no right to complain but you can decide to leave if you want to or discuss it with her.

elterwater · 31/08/2010 20:29

Ace - I agree; Ive been self employed too and if I didnt work I got nothing nor would expect to. I simply don't understand how some childminders think they should be classed as self employed and paid too when they are not available.

looneytune · 31/08/2010 20:37

elterwater - but ace is saying that we shouldn't be paid when we ARE available. Because we can't fill that space due to that child coming back, we'd loose income for as long as the parnets wanted if we didn't charge. I personally couldn't afford for a parent to just take as much time off as they wanted and me not being paid. What if they took half the year off? I agree about all the we should only charge when we are available, TOTALLY agree but we are limited on the number of children we can have and we don't charge a big hourly rate per child so most of us really do need to 'fill' our vacancies for this job to work. I for one didn't choose to be self employed, I wanted to be a childminder and legally that's how we have to do it.

elterwater · 31/08/2010 21:07

Oh sorry I misunderstood - I totally agree about being paid when available but the parent chooses not to use for whatever reason.

aceandskill · 31/08/2010 21:27

I suppose I am looking for a justification for charging when not working even if the space is available. The justification is to do with what looneytune said - the numbers are limited by an outside body (Ofsted) and therefore income is limited and the freedom of being self employed is limited by this as well... spaces are precious, and to earn decent money you need to have them paying out every day they are available. I think I get it. Thanks for the debate guys sorry if I annoyed anyone...

HSMM · 31/08/2010 21:54

If a tradesman agreed a price and a date to come and I didn't answer the door, I would still expect him to charge me his daily rate. If he charges a daily rate and only comes for half the day, he still charges. therefore the same as me (CM) - he charges for his availability. I charge when I am available and not when I am not available.

Tanith · 31/08/2010 23:45

Aceandskill, it's certainly not unique to childminders to be paid when not working even if available.

I worked in the IT industry as a self-employed contractor. If we were contracted by a client and available for work, but the client didn't have any work for us to do, that was the client's problem, not ours. We were still paid for our time, even if we sat there doing nothing. I think you'll find your builder will expect the same. Both industries, incidently, are paid far in excess of childminders.

Can I just repeat what I've said previously? Whatever a childminder decides to charge is between that childminder and the parent(s). It's not for anyone to criticise the arrangement without full knowledge of the contract and service provided. It's not our place to criticise someone for charging for their holidays just because we may have a different arrangement with our clients.

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