Frustrated @*&^! Shouldn't childcare be tax deductible!?!

[W6mum]

Who do I go to, where do I start to get a pressure group to force a change in law/policy? Any I can join???

I earn a good salary yet have this hideous amount going out on childcare, and that's along with doing all the bloody paperwork we have to do as 'employer' (nanny share arrangement so roughly same as nursery cost). After these costs I really am just working for some intellectual stimulation. Other ladies in my NCT group, inteligent women at that, cannot even afford to go back to work.

What the hell? I'm sure the legislation Baroness Scotland drew up then flaunted herself in her employment of an illegal Tongan nanny was all about getting mums to feel too guilty to pay cash in hand and use us as tools to effect Labour's failed anti-immigration measures (as if we didn't have enough guilt already)

So...... DAVID CAMERON - I want my childcare costs coming out of my PREtax income now!!!!

But baited, it's not about being subsidised, it's about childcare being treated the same as any other work-related expense.

I am the taxpayer baitedbreath, but I may be put in a situation where I actually become a greater burden on the state through earning nothing at all to be taxed (if I am forced out of work), rather than having childcare as tax deductible where I would still pay tax

In the end, more women work so more contribute taxes

rainbowinthesky, say my dh made £400 a week, and on that, we could cover all of our expenses, but only just. Say I then take a job that pays £200 a week; as a family we have £600 a week, loads.

Except that the childcare we pay while neither of us is available to look after DC ourselves, costs £250 a week, so instead of £400 to pay all our expenses, we have only £350. It's not worth me taking the £200 job, is it?

Undutchable - does that mean you are better off under that system, or is it just as hard?

Is there much choice in who you can use as a childcare provider... or are you limited to nurseries?

LittleCheesy wrote: UK childcare costs are the highest in the world.

But what other costs are also high... housing, food, fuel, transport, business rates etc. Is it the knock on costs that affect the price of childcare? Also under UK regulations there are restrictions on how many children a provider can care for at a given time... so a limit on their income potential.

Childcarers are also tax payers... quite a lot of the money you pay for childcare is going back to HMRC in the form of employee Tax/NI.

Childcare is not a work related expense, it' a choice. You could choose to work hours when your partner isn't. The state should not subsidise your lifestyle.

EXACTLY!!! Crazeeeee......... Oldladyknowsnothing becomes a burden on the state, her skills go unused, she misses out on some of the stimulation of work.
It's a system that promotes state reliance and an even greater need for benefits/ handouts, and THEREFORE higher taxes! doh!

Nah, OLKN did the usual and worked anti-social hours (at shitty part-time, low-paid, non-career-enhancing jobs) so DH could do the childcare. He did the Mon-Fri, 9 - 5 thing, while I did the childcare.

I see what you're saying nannynick, and I'm not suggesting it shouldn't.
I'm trying to suggest a way work could be more viable for thousands of parents in the country - the tax coffers ultimately benefit, everyone benefits. Rather the Dutch system of higher taxes but a system that allows everyone to be gainfully employed. I think rates of lifestyle happiness are very high in Holland, and conversely rates of disease etc are lower (more savings! It's a veritable bonanza)

OLKN - you trooper! Shame on the government and their shitty policies. I'd happily swap some maternity benefits (like accrual of holiday - weird right?!) for the opportunity to take home some more pay

I can't see that childcarers should be paid any less; it's an important job - just that as a work related expense it should be tax deductible - you can't work without it

Oh please, baited, there are very few careers where shift working is an option.

Of course childcare is a work-related expense! Definitely more so than flying first call or hiring a chauffeur!

this would allow us to pay childcarers a bit more, and always above the table

flying first class, that should have been....

Having children is a lifestyle choice. True. BUT. The state NEEDS us to have children, because if no-one had children then when the current generation of workers retire, there will be no-one working to pay the taxes to pay our pensions.

So, it is rough to then penalise people for doing something the state needs people to do.

I agree. I work three days a week and our fees are about £650 a month. We're lucky in that we both get vouchers but that only covers £486.

this would allow us to pay childcarers a bit more, and always above the table

Would it though? Has Childcare Vouchers seen an increase in salaries, has it seen an increase in the full salary of say nannies being declared? I don't know... but I'd doubt that it has made that much difference. Those who will fiddle the system will always fiddle the system.

Currently the only thing that causes a rise in childcare salaries is the minimum wage rising

I agree with KatyMac... in my area a Nursery Nurse working in a nursery will get NMW. They may get a little more if they are Room Leader but not a lot. In my area £13k-£15k is usual for a full-time nursery job. Or put another way, about £5.80 an hour - so NMW for those aged 22+.

But tbh at the rates that childcare is paid the wages can't go up; I have done a significant amount of research on this (looking at it from the point of a nursery owner, a nursery worker and as an academic) & while childcare costs are so low childcare workers will never earn a 'decent' wage.

You have to have a level 3 to get minimum wage, level 2's are becoming less employable and unqualified are almost a waste of time

katymac - am interested in this - how come other countries have cheaper childcare than us when so many of our childcarers are on minimum wage?

I would guess that other countries subsidise childcare in some way... perhaps by having state run nurseries.

It's about ratios & building costs

I can do with our ratios & a free setting or with a UK property and higher ratios but not as it is

TBH food costs are causing major problems atm but I won't go down the line of crap food

I think it might be possible as a co-op but it's tight

nannynick - offering childcare as a tax deductible expense would reduce the cost to the parent, which you could look at as a government subsidy.

katymac - yes, buildings and food costs, I can see how it all adds up. thanks.

HAven't read whole thread BUT

• you are BOTH eligible for childcare vouchers, i.e £243 out of BOTH your wages - £486 should cover a big chunk of the childcare bill?