I need some help re: nannies please

[ST47]

Hi, I am just looking for some advice. My partner and I are in the process of splitting up, so I need to organise childcare (we currently share childcare but this will no longer be possible). My job (retail) involves working evenings, so I think a nanny will be the best option for me. I have 3 children, aged 6.5, 3 and 1. The oldest has very minor additional needs (ASD), but this should not require a great deal of extra work as long as the nanny is sensitive to his needs.

The first thing I need to check is about tax credits. From what I understand, in England nannies can register with OFSTED and the parent can claim tax credit assistance for registered nannies. I am in Scotland, and from what I can work out, if I use a nanny agency that is registered with the Care Commission, I can claim tax credits towards the cost of the nanny. Is this correct? (if it isn't, the rest of my post is irrelevant tbh, I can't afford childcare without tax credits).

The second thing I need to ask is whether the terms of work would be reasonable. I can pay a maximum of £300 pw as this is the maximum I can claim to pay for tax credits purposes. This would be for 29 hours work, 1.30pm-8.30pm on a Wed, 7.30am-6.30pm on a Thu, 10.30am-9.30pm on a Fri. The children have staggered bedtimes and should all be in bed by 8pm, so on a Friday he/she should have an hour to 90 minutes of free time.

I would need the nanny to do school/nursery drop off/pickups via bus, once on a Weds, three times on a Thu and once on a Friday. Obviously I would pay the fare. It is about a 10minute journey each way.

Other than that, all I require is that he/she carries out the children's basic care needs (feeding/nappy changes/bedtimes etc), plays with the children, does arts/crafts regularly, and does basic tidying after themselves. I don't expect them to do housework or to cook beyond making a sandwich or reheating something I have cooked in advance.

Is this reasonable, or is this rate of pay too low for the tasks I require? Again, if this is unreasonable I will need to rethink everything entirely.

Thirdly, how does the whole process work? How much does the agency sort out and what do I need to do, with regards to conracts etc? Is the nanny supposed to get breaks like in "normal" employment? How do I fit these in if so? How do things like tax/NI work? What about holidays? I have to book all my holiday from work at the start of the year, and can only take holiday at certain times. How should I work this out with the nanny?

Is there anything else I haven't thought of?

TIA for any assistance, and I apologise for the very long post. This is all new to me, and I haven't a clue where to start tbh.

Hi there, where abouts are you located, the wage sounds fair to me but is it net or gross? e.g. are you going to be paying their nat ins and tax on top, if you are employing a nanny you are responsible for this is they are working in your home? If you are paying that separately and they walk home with 300 a week then this sounds perfectly reasonable for three children and all the jobs you mentioned.

I am in Scotland, West Lothian. That rate would be gross I think, I don't think I could afford to pay anymore than that in total. Would that make it too low?

Yes you can register with an agency for tax credit purposes. If you find your own nanny I think the current fee for this is £200.
Below I have listed some scottish agencies that should be able to help you.

www.ahnannyservices.co.uk
www.wsna.co.uk
www.glasgowchildcaresolutions.co.uk

People have posted on here in the past saying they are able to get tax credits and will get a nanny. They have then gone quiet... we didn't hear the outcome of if they actually ever managed to do it. I suspect that may be due to once all the costs have been calculated, a nanny is too expensive. However, you can certainly try - the key thing will be getting someone to do the job for say around £7-8 gross an hour.

In Scotland you will need to recruit via an agency registered with the Care Commission, so that you can use tax credits. Contact some agencies in your area and see what fees they charge plus what sort of salary they think you would need to offer given it's a part-time live-out position with unusual hours.

I can pay a maximum of £300 pw as this is the maximum I can claim to pay for tax credits purposes.

What do you mean by maximum claim?

WTC5 says that the max weekly amount of help (so funding) is £240, so 80% of £300. So the childcarer must be paid at least £300, for you to get £240 of help. You then have to pay the surplus £60+ Is that what you meant? Don't want you thinking that you get all that £300 paid.

The childcare costs amount (£300) can include costs such as Employers NI, Payroll Administration.

So if £9 per hour...
£9 x 29 = £261
£261 per week = £13,609 per year.
Employers NI = £1010
Payroll Company may be £125
So £14,744 which is about £283 a week

So if £10 per hour...
£10 x 29 = £290
£290 per week = £15,121 per year.
Employers NI = £1204
Payroll Company may be £125
So £16,450 which is about £315 a week

So salary wise looks like you will need to be offering close to £10 gross an hour, so that you meet the £300 per week childcare cost requirement.

Having a nanny can incur other costs... such as the nanny taking the children out. Thurs and Fri would be the days that may happen as they are long days. If your nanny is to remain in your home all the time they will get no adult company... which may not be good. So consider what ability they would have for meeting other people - such as going to toddler groups, such groups may cost quite low but travel costs will need to be taken into account. Also during School Holiday times... they will have all the children to entertain and costs of outings can increase dramatically.

How much does the agency sort out and what do I need to do, with regards to conracts etc?

Will depend on the agency. A good agency should be able to advise on what to include in a contract and may well provide a template for you to just add bits.

Is the nanny supposed to get breaks like in "normal" employment?
Yes. In reality it doesn't happen. So what is usual is that the nanny eats with the children - so gets fed and watered as it were. The nanny also plans out their working day such as there may be a slight lull occasionally where they can grab a cup of tea.

How do things like tax/NI work?
You would register with HMRC as an employer and operate full PAYE. Payroll companies can assist you by doing most of the paperwork and reminding you of when to pay. That actually may be a problematic point depending how good you are at saving and how any savings may affect your benefits - as HMRC are paid every 3 months, so you have to keep the money owed to them in an account and then send it to HMRC at the right date.

What about holidays?
Your nanny is entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday. So 17 days in your case. You may want to calculate it in Hours, as the working days lengths vary.

I have to book all my holiday from work at the start of the year, and can only take holiday at certain times. How should I work this out with the nanny?

You are entitled to dictate when the holiday is taken by your nanny. However if you dictate it all, they may not be very happy.
It could be a stumbling block - you may find it hard to find a nanny who will agree to you deciding when they take their holiday.

nannynick couldnt have put that better

agree with everything he says...

especialyy the holiday, it is normal for nannies to choose half and employers to choose half.

If nanny chooses a time you cant get off, as a one off (obviously with notice) could you ask the childrens grandparents... (only likely to be one or 2 times a year)

also you need to consider the extra costs of a nanny... things like heating the home all day in the winter, feeding the nanny her on duty meals (normally a portion of what the children are having)

ALSO... it is perfectly acceptable and normal to ask a nanny to cook "proper food" from scratch... (most nannies i know, would if making a meal be happy to cook you an extra portion sometimes too if that helps?)

if she uses her car you will need to pay 40p per mile. (Or insure her on your car)
in the holidays outings can significantly add to the costs, when you have lots of children to entertain all day, and the local (50p a morning) toddler groups stop etc

Reading mine back, think the following should be removed:
However, you can certainly try - the key thing will be getting someone to do the job for say around £7-8 gross an hour.

As you need the minimum to be £300 a week.

However do look into that... WTC2 and WTC5 will be the booklets to read, explaining Childcare Element of WTC. I think you may be fine claiming a lower amount, though given the part time and working hours plus holiday constraints, you may need to be offering the nanny £10 gross an hour.
See if you can establish likely gross hourly rate from agencies and by looking online at job listings sites.

'employers NI' is about 10% on the top of the gross salary too, so you end up paying the taxman employers NI, employees NI and employees tax altogether in the 3monthly chunks.

If you're getting to the limit of what you can pay, consider if there are any other perks you can offer, and what else could make you a good employer for the nanny. But the hourly rate seems possible, though I don't know the details of your location.

west lothian here and paying 10 gross for a good nanny. it seems pretty standard tbh.

a and h nannies in glasgow are very on the ball - totally recommend them. Can also give you a personal list of avoids if you want.

Thank you so much for all your very helpful posts. I am sorry to have taken so long to reply.

In terms of cost, a childminder would cost me more than a nanny, and obviously wouldn't be able to cover the shifts that I need, so I think a nanny is going to be the better option. WRT to the £300 pw, this is the maximum I can pay to cover all costs, but obviously I can pay less than this also. I just don't want to pay an unfair rate for the job I require iyswim, especially as like you say it is part time and there are holiday restrictions. Thank you nannynick for the breakdown in costs, these were things I hadn't considered so it is very helpful.

The holiday restrictions are basically that I can't take holiday from October to January inclusively, and can only take 2 weeks from July onwards. Holiday is allocated at the end of January, and I would be happy to liaise with the nanny to decide which weeks to apply for (although applications are not always successful). My own parents don't live nearby, but my FIL may help me out when required, although it depends on his own work schedule.

naanyl, thank you also for the useful post. Thanks for the information about cooking meals, I had thought this would eb too much to ask someone to do alongside the care of the children so that is really helpful. There should be no additional heating costs, as there is always someone in the house anyway iyswim; I can see I would need to put money aside for school holiday outings so thanks for that.

Thanks for the recommendation HuckingFell (great name btw), I will be contacting them today :)

I have some more questions (sorry )

I ended up contacting WSNA rather than A&H, partly because A&H would have cost twice as much [skint]

They said they don't do recruiting anymore, but do still register for tax credits, and advised I find my own nanny and then get back in contact for them to register her.

I placed ads on Gumtree and Childcare.co.uk, and am currently in touch with a woman who seems very nice and who also seems to tick a lot of the boxes I require (would it be UR to link her ad here?)

What is the best way to proceed? She is going to call me sometime this week to discuss my needs and whether she can meet them iyswim. I would think the best step after that would be to meet somewhere neutral, without the children, to discuss further? And then move onto her visiting us here and meeting with the children?

What questions should I ask? What am I looking for when I meet her? I am really nervous

"Thanks for the information about cooking meals, I had thought this would eb too much to ask someone to do alongside the care of the children so that is really helpful."

Just to let you know - it is also quite normal for a nanny to do what's classed as 'nanny duties'. This is anything to do with the children's care - so doing the children's washing and ironing, changing their bed linen, tidying their bedrooms/playroom. Gives you more quality time to spend with the children when you are not working

The CareCommission thinks that WSNA is an "introductory agency that provides clients with nannies who have been through a robust recruitment process." (Taken from their Mar-2010 inspection report)

So if they are no longer recruiting nannies... then do they meet the Care Commission requirements? Seems a bit strange for a nanny agency not to offer a recruiting service.

I placed ads on Gumtree and Childcare.co.uk, and am currently in touch with a woman who seems very nice and who also seems to tick a lot of the boxes I require (would it be UR to link her ad here?)

Probably better to copy and paste non-identifiable information... so excluding things like Name, phone number, date of birth etc.

I would suggest going through all the paperwork requirement type things via e-mail, to check she has the relevant experience, relevant qualifications etc.

Then arrange for her to meet your children and see how they interact.

Problem is, in Scotland you need to hire via an agency if you need to use Childcare Vouchers or Tax Credits - plus the nanny will need to meet certain minimum standards I expect. So how will you do that if not using an agency... would you use WSNA and hope they retain their care commission registration despite not helping with the recruitment. Maybe that is acceptable to the Care Commission... I don't know.

It is ok (in terms of tax credits) for an agency to vet a nanny you recruit yourself, all three linked to above do this (although the other two don't give costs or requirements on their website). Good point about whether they still meet their CC requirements if they're no longer recruiting though

WSNA say the requirements for registering are two years childcare experience plus modules in first aid and child protection (they don't mention enhanced disclosure but I am presuming this will also be a requirement). I will email the other two agencies linked to above to see what their requirements are. The nanny I am in contact with is happy to register, and from her ad does meet the requirements.

This was her ad (no identifying information I don't think):
edinburgh.gumtree.com/edinburgh/36/64826036.html

my rate of pay is £7 per hour before tax.

Make sure you confirm exactly what is meant by that. It is YOU as the employer who decides what the salary is... so maybe she is just giving an indication of what she wants.
However the phrase "before tax" could have two different meanings... such as Before deduction of tax... so £7 gross. Or she could mean before taking account of tax deductions... so £7 net.
Tax Calculator which can do Net and Gross

Also from the phrasing of the advert, looks to me as though she may already have a job... so consider how that will fit with your childcare requirements.

She's currently working her notice period (obviously will check why she is leaving, odd to leave a job without another to go to). Good point about the pay she mentions, I did think £7 gross seemed low, but as you say she may actually mean £7 net. I am happy to pay more than £7 gross for a good nanny anyway, as I said a CM would cost £12ph for care of all 3 children.

A&H have emailed me back, basically the nanny has to go through the same process as a nanny recruited by them, so it would still be acceptable for tax credits. Their charge is less than WSNA (bloody confusing, A&H would have cost more to recruit a nanny, but cost less to register one. My brain hurts).

Thank you so much for all your kind help NannyNick, I think I would have given up by now without it.

I think Finance should be part of childcare courses, as nannies also need to juggle budgets for activities/outings.

Sounds about right what A&H are saying... I think the agency would need to be doing some screening of the nanny. It's different in England where it is the nanny who is registered, so parents can do the screening. In Scotland the agency is registered, thus they do the screening. Suppose that makes sense - all so confusing.

Is A&H in reasonable travel distance? The nanny would need to visit them in person I expect... so consider distance. As they are cheaper and they still provide a full recruitment service... Suggest going with them.

7 gross does sound low, even 7 net - so 8.30ish I think gross still sounds quite low for someone experiened and qualified. Though how much nanny experience does she have? Was all her experience group based, or did she also nanny in the past?