CMs and pre-schools

[EddieIzzardismyhero]

Probably a really stupid question, but I'm sure one of you lovely people can help .

If my DS is dropped off at a CM at 8am and then CM takes him to pre-school for 9-12 and then looks after him until 5pm, do I pay her for the whole day?

Obviously she's not looking after him for those three hours, but equally she's not going to be able to have any other children for that time either!

Just trying to do some calculations .

TIA.

Yes you do

because if your child needs collecting or the preschool is closed due to sickness, polling day etc you'll want your cm to have her, and in holidays too maybe

Thanks compo, holidays aren't an issue as I'm a teacher.

Do you have to pay then or is it a choice?

Just want to get an idea of how it works before I start talking to CMs.

You have to do what the childminder asks you to do, if you want your child to be cared for by that childminder. It is, however, standard practice IME.

It depends upon the childminder

I don't offer term-time only; but I'm normally full - I often have teachers children.

Some may offer a discount, expect a retainer or not charge at all - it's individual choice; each childminder runs their own business as they want to

No OP you don't have to pay for them - it just depends on the childminder and what their terms and conditions are. If they charge and you don't want to pay then you don't choose that minder. However, a word of warning, I think you will be hard pushed to find a minder who doesn't charge for that period. It would be a rare minder who could fill that space or doesn't charge.

Sorry FallenMadonna, that wasn't a very articulate response of mine! I meant do all CMs charge or is it down to the individual, I didn't mean I could refuse to pay the CM if she asked me to!

I'm not adverse to paying, just wanted to know what 'standard practise' was so I know what to expect when I start phoning around CMs.

Looks like we'll have to pay!

Yep, standard to charge round here. The only time I didn't charge was when I was given a variation to have them as the 4th under 5 year old so it was bonus money to me so I didn't mind just charging for when I had them. ALL other times I have/I do charge for those hours. Another thing to bear in mind is the time at pre-school may be 3 hours but there is travelling time and for me it would be AT LEAST half an hour EACH WAY (drop off and pick up) due to the number of children to get in/out of the car etc. (but that's because it's not easy at the school we use). Not to mention having to rush back and get lunch asap so can start doing naps before it's time for the big school run (that's just me). I know you're not saying this, just wanted to give an idea of how much more rushing around there is to do when there is a nursery run to add (as I've heard of people who think we have it easy whilst they're gone and we get paid when in fact it would be much EASIER to have them with me for those hours and be more relaxed with the routine )

Lol looneytune, have just said same thing to my dh, i.e. that it's not the CM's choice to send them to pre-school and actually probably a big hassle for them!

Glad I asked the question now, cos we really hadn't thought it through and I assumed we wouldn't pay. Would have hated to have offended anyone so now I know for conversations that I'll be having over the next few weeks .

Thanks.

Did I sound snippy? Didn't mean to. Sorry

No need to apologise, thought you were slapping my wrist for being a tightarse!

Also, just as an aside, the cm and the pre school will both be following the eyfs curriculum, so you don't have to use a pre school if you don't want to.

Thanks HSMM, the thinking behind using the pre-school was for DS1 to meet children who he would be going to school with and to socialise with more children.

CM won't have many kids and he's used to being in a nursery so would like him to have that experience again, if that makes sense.

Yes that makes sense :)

The other thing to consider is, depending on how old your child is, that the pre-school sessions will be funded by the goverment from the term after your child turns 3.

I am in the same boat. My DS is starting with a childminder in September. He will start 2 afternoon sessions a week at the pre-school attached to the school my DD will be at in January. The CM will drop and pick him up. I will just have to take the hit financially (the sessions are £20 each so £40 a week on top of what we're already paying CM). But come Sept 2011 he is then entitled to 4 morning sessions that are paid for by the goverment.

And I am going the pre-school route for precisely the same reasons as you OP. Both my children have been at a private nursery but that is no longer an option now that DD is starting school so DS will be going to CM also. I am a little bit worried that he will find it hard to adapt at the CM as she only looks after one other child outside of school hours. DS is used to having 12 other children of the same age around him and absolutely adores Nursery. So hopefully he will get that vibe back when he starts pre-school.

We have a great CM who takes DD1 to and from pre-school and doesn't charge for the time she is there - BUT DD1 does full days at the pre-school and the CM is NOT the emergency contact if DD1 needed to be collected (the idea being, if she is too ill for pre-school she is too ill to be at the CM's house with all the other children there.) Also, for closure days DD1 could go to the CM if there is space, for which we would pay extra, but generally we cover those ourselves (although can't recall any actually happening!)

I am also a teacher and have a term time only contract. My CM works out the total cost for the whole year, with a 50% retainer for the school holidays, and then divides the whole lot by 12 so we pay the same each month regardless of how much the girls are actually there.

This system works much better than with previous (great) CM who simply gave us a bill towards the end of each month for the hours we would use in the next month - so some months were very expensive (5 week months) and others (like August with just the retainer) were very cheap - I think the annual bill helps everyone budget!

This method of paying, especially if you find someone who will just charge the retainer for the holidays (we could then send our girls in the holidays and pay the full price if we wanted to but I keep them home with me instead) means that you know what you are paying. It also means that you simply pay another monthly bill rather than feel like you are paying 'when she is not having DC' so you wouldn't really notice if you pay for the mornings when your DS is at nursery.

To all CMs - I don't want to make it look like it is all about the money but that does factor into it. We earn more than a lot of our friends (I choose to work full time) but have not had a holiday this year because of the large percentage of my wages that we pay to have 2 children in full-time childcare. By paying this way I find it easier NOT to think how we have funded all the home improvements our CM has had this past year since taking on my two girls when we have manky old carpet and garden steps that are falling apart that we can't afford to replace yet!

The most important thing though is that I am happy going to work each day simply BECAUSE my girls love going to play at the CM's house and are very happy and safe and well-cared for there. I have been very lucky with both CMs I have used and I hope the OP finds someone just as fabulous!

Rollergirl, sounds like you have had exactly the same thinking as us! We are moving boys to a CM cos I'm starting school though . I'm going back to teaching this September and simply can't justify the cost of paying to put both my children in nursery for the 13 weeks I'm at home . But DS1 absolutely adores his nursery and I'm struggling with the thought of taking him out and away from his little friends, the names of whom he chants to me every morning while getting ready to go .

I'm hoping that pre-school will fill the void, but he's not due for his free place until Sept 2011.

Dysgu, can I ask why you pay a retainer for school holidays? Is that your choice because you sometimes use her then too? I'm hoping to find a CM who won't charge for holidays at all, and those who advertise as doing term-time only surely can't charge me for the holidays?

It's all so confusing!

Most of mine pay me a set monthly fee too (with all my holidays/bank hols deducted then the total divided by 12). I prefer it this way as I can budget better and don't have a low income to worry about when I take time off. Some parents choose (for whatever reason) to pay for exact hours so I just have to work out what the minimum is that I'll get for them each month. Oh, and if I have to close for any other reason, the refund is deducted from the next invoice. Works for us. I just couldn't possibly afford to have a space sitting empty (but we also have manky carpet, horrible decor and hardly ever have holidays/any time away)

But don't some CMs only work term-time cos they have their own children to look after during the school holidays?

If I'm still going to have to pay for school holidays I might as well leave them at nursery (and have 13 weeks to myself )!

I personally offer both Term Time only and School hols only as well as all year round care. BUT that's because I have enough interest. If I couldn't get holiday only contracts I'd HAVE to charge a retainer as I work all year round. I WISH I could afford to be a Term Time only childminder!

EddieIzzard: Sounds like you do need a term-time only CM then. My children will still be going in the holidays as I work so is a bit different for me. I think if they were not going to her she would charge me a retainer.

Also, without wanting to hijack the thread, my CM prefers payment weekly. I am used to the Nursery calculating the weekly costs of both children, multiplying by 50 weeks and dividing by 12 months (minus the goverment funding) so I pay a set amount by DD each month. I realise that it is probably quite difficult for a CM to do this but it will be a faff having to pay weekly. Do most CM's do this?

Weekly payment? That does sound like a pain.

We used a CM for 3mths before DS1 started nursery (she stopped minding and we were gutted as DS1 adored her ) and we paid monthly but calculated differently each month, so 5wk months obviously cost more if that makes sense?

My CM charges half rate for the hours DD is at pre-school.