Employing 2 different nannies?

[Gangle]

I'm currently on maternity leave with DS2 and trying to work out what to do for childcare when I go back to work. I very much want DS2 to be cared for by a nanny or nanny share, as was DS1, as I feel strongly that nursery isn't the right place for him until he's at least 2. On the other hand, I feel DS1 would really benefit from going to nursery on 2 or 3 days of the week. I would ideally get our own nanny for the entire week AND send DS1 to nursery but think of course would cost a fortune, far cheaper to have the nanny to look after both but this would mean DS1 missing out on nursery. Other options are for me to employ our own nanny to look after both DSs on 1 or 2 days of the week and to find a nanny share for DS2 on the 2 or 3 days that DS1 goes to nursery (I am hoping to work only 4 days) but I am wondering if DS2 having 2 different carers would be a problem and if he's suffer from lack of continuity. Has anyone done this?

Perhaps a Childminder might be another option for DS2 & then could also do pick-ups / drop-offs for DS1? Far cheaper than a nanny, & you get a lot of the one-to-one care that you want.

What do you mean when you say employ your own nanny? do you then currently have a nanny?

Personally I wouldn't want to have 2 nannies: far too confusing, not so much for the children as for you.

I think a four-day week plus two nannies (one of them a share with another family) and nursery sounds unnecessarily complicated. Is ds1 of an age where he could go to pre-school for a few mornings a week and get funding for some sessions? If nursery is for socialization, you could get that from attending toddler groups with a nanny. If it is because you wish him to start learning some letters, numbers etc a good nanny will also be able to do that with him. I think a nanny with some cheap activities for ds1 sounds like the best solution.

I would ideally get our own nanny for the entire week AND send DS1 to nursery but think of course would cost a fortune, far cheaper to have the nanny to look after both but this would mean DS1 missing out on nursery.

I disagree... I think that is the solution.

The problem is that you may be thinking of a nursery as a place that offers full day care - say from 8am to 6pm. Whereas what you actually want for DS1 is some educational group, where he gets to be away from DS2 for a few hours. That is provided by a Pre-School (what oldies like me called a Playgroup), which typically runs say 9am-12pm (some will also run an afternoon session).

While this may cost a little more... it won't cost a lot more given the current Government funding of education for those aged 3+.

This will give DS1 some time to spend with other children of a similar age, in a more educational focused environment (though it's still a lot of Learning Through Play).

DS2 will get 1:1 time with nanny which may initially mean time to sleep without DS1 constantly waking him up - with nanny then having some time for domestic duties and to take rest break.

Also consider the hassle of finding a nanny for 2 days a week. Finding a 4 day a week nanny I feel is viable but finding a nanny for 2 days I feel could be harder. As a nanny, I work a 4-day week... I would not consider a 2 day week.

How old is DS1? I'd wait for the free nursery place when he's 3 TBH, and do some playgroups or classes till then.

What benefits do you see from nursery?

Keep in mind that the domestic duties are important to you... while you may not be that bothered about your nanny doing the washing... you do want them to "pick food up off the floor, wipe down surfaces, put nappy sacks in bin etc." (don't you love the search facility ) Not at all unreasonable to expect that but the more demanding the children are the more that sort of thing can slip. So having some time where nanny has less childcare duties, that could make more time for doing general tidying.

Also you have a Nanny Share currently and it isn't without it's issues (Eg this thread from last month). Consider if this is still the right nanny for you, and consider if the share is really working.

One of the great advantages of having a nanny is not to have to get two children out of the house early in the morning but if you go down the nanny share route a few days a week you not only lose that advantage but end up having to do two drop-offs, with ds1 at nursery and ds2 at the share.

Why don't you look for one nanny who has a job on the days DS1 goes to nursery. Share on those days with her existing family, and have her to yourself on days DS1 is not in nursery.

Although even this is rather complicated, and probably a very tallorder to find. I would just get a nanny and drop nursery.

Out of curiosity, what is it you feel nursery can provide that a nanny can't?

You could have one nanny for whole wk and the days she has both boys she can just look after them then the days ds1 goes to nursery you can set up a nanny share
only thing to consider is it may put some nannies off as they will worry that before long that ds2 will go to nursery and they will be out of a job

Thanks all, really helpful. Sorry, didn't explain the situation very well. We already have a nanny share for DS1. As you have pointed out, we had a few issues with the nanny and the share which I think were mainly linked to the other family rather than the nanny herself. When I went on maternity leave, I discussed our ongoing requirements with the nanny, especially as we are currently out of the country for a few months and so don't need her to work, fully expecting us to agree to end the arrangement, however, she was very keen to keep things in place and so agreed to find another family to share with on a temporary basis and then return to work for us when I go back to work. We agreed to pay her a small retainer in exchange for her being available when I go back to work although I'm now wondering if this was a good idea. The pluses are that she already knows the children and their routine, plus she speaks French and it's relatively hard for us to find a French speaking nanny, in our part of London anyway. The downsides are the issues outlined in my other posts, the main one being that using her may tie us into a nanny share which I don't think will work any longer. I was therefore going to suggest to the nanny that we "split her" with the other family and use her for 2 days so that the DCs can keep up their French, send DS1 to nursery for 2 days and find another arrangement for DS2 on those 2 days. Interesting that many of you have questioned what a nursery can provide that a nanny doesn't. Well, with DS1, I was concerned that the nanny just let them play rather than actively engaging with them and teaching them things. I know they learn through play at this age but really felt that DS1 would benefit from a more structured environment where they are taught letters and numbers etc. He is also very tantrummy at the moment and I thought being in a group setting would be beneficial. He does go to playgroup but the children there do not necessarily engage with each other - they mainly play alone unless they want a toy the other one has. It may be though that our own nanny and a cheaper play-group type nursery (as opposed to daycare) is the best solution although I think this too will work out very expensive. Having just put DS1 into nursery for 2 mornings a week (we are abroad for a few months), I'm not sure I would be happy leaving him in a nursery for a full day. Just seems so long for him to be away from home at such a young age. Will also probably need our own nanny when DCs go to school to do all the dropping off and picking up.

My DS goes to nursery 2 mornings a week, and we still have our nanny those days (we have her 4 days a week), she has a chance to spend 1 on 1 time with DS2 and/or do some nursery duties. Come September these nursery days will be completely free as I am using under 15 hours. I do agree with you about the social interaction. It has been so valuable for DS1 to interact with other children. He started slowly, and is now interacting with certain children much better than he was, rather than just playing alongside them.

BUT, if you think you will be getting a more formal environment that teaches numbers and letters think again, most good nurseries will not do this as it is seen to be more important that they learn from play, and nurseries have a child led environment. (Good ones obviously being able to 'suggest' different activities to children - an activity presented in an interesting light will usually get most children participating!!)

Oh, and if your nanny is just 'letting them play' rather than engaging with the children, then I'm afraid you don't have the right nanny! For all of my nanny's faults she is absolutely terrific in engaging with the children. Also, I like the fact that DS2 has time without DS1 around, because it is teaching him to play on his own. DS1 had to learn to play on his own, but because DS1&2 play together so well DS2 hasn't really learned this skill as well, and I feel that playing on his own while DS1 is at nursery and nanny is doing nursery duties is very important.

Chitchat, how old are your DCs?

3 1/2 and 1.

Does it not work out hugely expensive? Average salary for a full time nanny in London is £500 a week net which works out to around £2,800 gross per month with tax. Plus a couple of hundred for playgroups, even cheap ones, and it's a lot of money.

Well the nursery, as I said, is free (but not the other activities, boy do they add up!!!). I also have a young (early 20s) nanny who is brand new to nannying, but has nursery experience. She was also in the process of finishing her NVQ3 and doesn't have a driver's licence (so I do have to do some driving around during the day with the DCs)so she has a lower salary than the average.

Working from home means that I have had a chance to see her interaction with the DCs, not something most parents could do so getting an inexperienced nanny could be a gamble in those circumstances. Also I'm not in London, still in an expensive area but not as bad as London. She also does shorter hours than other nannies. Normal nanny hours would really only cover 3 days a week, but it is spread out over 4 (but may reduce down to 3 soon as I will need to start working away from home some days so will need the earlier starts and later finishes).

Chitchat giving wise advice and observations.

Nursery/Pre-school with 'structure' will only kick in when DS1 is 3 - before that it is play, which nanny should be able to make more structured. But even the group environment will only do structured play - they will not be aiming to do letters/numbers and will only record these and assist in these if the child themselves leads them to this, otherwise it is really play but playing in groups and learning to share and spend time sitting quitely - that kind of thing.

anyway, aside from that I think you need to move your current thinking away from what you want to do to what the options are, and the pros and cons of those options. you say that you don't want DS1 to do a full day but then if he doesn't do a full day the nanny share thing is not really going to work is it?

I would recommend you sit down with a piece of paper and list out the realistic options eg (1) Full time nanny + pre-school, (2) Part time nanny and both in nursery, (3) Nanny share and part time nanny. List out pros and cons and cost of each and avoid trying to construct something which exactly matches what you want (because I don't think you will be able to).

Does anyone know what the eligibility criteria is for Government funding for a nursery place over 3?

Just bumping this in the hope that NannyNick is around. NN, in your opinion are the issues I've mentioned in my other posts showstoppers? Still pondering whether we should use the same nanny or find a new one. Would be a lot easier to keep the same one . . .

You know the old nannies faults... so in it is possibly easier to deal with those situations if they crop up again. Such as making sure it was known when holidays could (and could not) be taken, that activity budgets need to be monitored and split as equally as possible between the two families, have set dates for review including pay review (which does not mean an automatic rise).

Since getting married with luck she will have settled down a bit and not want last minute days off.

Did things improve at all? Can you now live with the level of tidying that is done?

Is the share still going to go ahead - if so, is that match still workable?