Is £8 an hour too stingy for a nanny?

[HeadFairy]

It's a part time position, three days a week 0900-1900 in Surrey. The person I'm considering worked as a nanny 20 years ago but has no recent experience or relevant qualifications. She currently earns more than this working as a cleaner so I'm worried about being stingy, esp as she's looking after two young children (7 months and 2.11 yrs). But reading around it seems this is the going rate for someone with no experience or qualifications. She's 48. Dunno if that's relevant.

gross or net?

We pay our nanny this, net. Many nannies are paid more in London - nine or ten net seems relatively common, I don't personally know nannies on more than that but maybe it's just our area. So, if your question is whether it's somehow cheeky to offer her this based on what your job entails and her experience, etc I would say no.

If your candidate is getting more as a cleaner there may be a bit of educating that you need to do to explain to her what it would cost you as an employer to put her on at higher hourly rates. She may not appreciate how much gets added on. If cost isn't a factor for you so much and you could go to say nine net, that would be entirely reasonable.

Gross (I think, she's sorting out her own tax and NI, so is gross the right word?)

She's asked to do her own tax and NI by the way because she receives a widows pension.

That's a separate question, your last point. Nannies generally don't meet the requirements to be self employed but you would need to speak to HMRC.

It's not up to her though - ask her to discuss it with a status officer at local tax office. You need to try to get something to cover you against any comeback as the fine for doing it wrong can be quite high.

Also is she saying she's a contractor and thus will be producing you with montly invoices, drawing up the contract, taking responsibility to find someone to do the work if she is ill or otherwise unavailable? Is she aware she would not get any holiday pay, sick pay etc.

I've had jobs in West Surrey area which worked out to be a little over £7 gross an hour. What salary you agree depends on many factors - it may suit her not to earn too much due to entitlements she may have. You just need to pay NMW or more.

hadn't thought of that nannynick, thanks. I have a horrible feeling she'd like cash in hand at least until april when she gets married again, but I'm a bit (a lot!) nervous about getting in trouble with HMRC!

I wouldn't go there. The only person who legally would get any come back from this is you. It's the employer who is apparently liable for fines on the unpaid tax. Also if it's a state pension she's getting and the cih job could be classed as some sort of benefits fraud - you want nowt to do with that.

Thanks harriet, I think I'm going to have to say to her that I can't pay cash in hand, if she wants the job she'll have to accept that. So the original question stands, is £8 an hour gross too little?

I have just interviewed a nanny, it is the first time for both of us...she will be looking after a one year old baby 2 days a week and we agreed £7 an hour in Norfolk. Any more and I wouldn't have been able to afford it at all so I am really pleased she agreed!

Thanks for that willowstar, that's very helpful. As we're in Surrey I guess I can allow for the extra £1 per hour, and although she'll be looking after two children, ds will be at nursery 2 out of the three days.

I feel it's fine to offer £8 gross. It's what you have available, it isn't as though you can offer more. Is she Ofsted registered - I would guess not, so you can't use Childcare Vouchers to help pay towards a higher salary.
Market forces being what they are, nannies will have to take salaries on offer, else they won't have any work.

I think its fine to offer £8 an hr gross and then you pay her tax and ni, if she doesnt want to accept there will be plenty of nannies who will work for that salary.

It is on the lower end of the salary scale for your area however she hasnt worked as a nanny for 20yrs - when she did was it for long or only couple yrs? She has no relevant qualifications

so I would say she comes under a similar bracket to a new nanny who has a couple yrs nursery experience and a qualification and therefore anything from £6-£8 gross would be acceptable.

Whereas if you employed a nanny with lots of recent experience ie- more than 5yrs and had qualifications or someone who has been nannying for many many years then you would be looking to pay £8-£12 gross.

Good luck

like the others have said, if it's what you can afford then it's ok to offer. it is low though - we had a nanny in sw london from 2005-8 and she was on about £8 net I think (equivalent to roughly £11 gross, iirc). she was younger than yours - but possibly similar in terms of relevant experience - she had been in a mother's help/nanny type position for a family with 4 kids where the mum didn;t wohm - so she often had sole care of 2 of them but not totally in charge iyswim. not qualified either. (and a completely brilliant nanny). but I'd echo what others have said about tax/ni/cih. tread very carefully. if hmrc consider you to be her employer and no tax has been paid you can be fined 1000s. and she'll get off scott free.

thanks for all the advice... I actually told her it was £9 ph gross and she said she was looking for £10. One thing (on an unrelated matter) that set alarm bells ringing for me is that she seemed reluctant to change her car insurance so she could take the children in her car.

I'm not wrong in thinking that if she took my children out in her car to the park etc, then technically she is using her car for work and her insurance has to reflect that doesn't it? She seemed to think she could just pretend the children were her grandchildren. dh reckons if we do take her on it would have to be on the condition of producing her insurance cert showing she's covered for work.

I'm not sure but I think you're right about the car - I also think that the extra cost is pretty small.

Yes, she needs business insurance on her car. It actually cost no extra to add it to mine. Maybe she doesn't realise and thinks it's going to cost £££'s.

Even if she is not going to register with Ofsted she ought to get herself nanny insurance - cost around £70 per year.

hello she does need business insurance on the car - the first time she does it as its a change to policy they may charge an admin fee this can range from £12-£50 depending on company and perhaps you could offer to pay that for her.

Car insurance is a whole new area of debate though... as there are 3 categories of business use plus none of them says specifically it covers passengers who are, depending how you look at it, paying for being transported (nanny is being paid for the time, plus usually at 40p a mile).

As far as I know there is no definitive answer to this, as what would need to happen is there to be some case law dealing with an insurer who refused to payout in the event of a large claim. You never really know if you have adequate insurance until something happens... you just hope for the best really.

However, SD+P would not cover it in my view. It should really be Business Class 1 or Class 3, or a specialist policy designed for childcarers. At least then with luck it would cover to some extent.

warning bells are going off as soon as i read your posts

she wants £10gross an hour yet hasnt worked with children for over 20yrs

i would tell her no and offer nearer £8gross

she wants cih/pay her own tax,not possible in her/your circumstances YOU will be the one who gets into trouble

regards car insurance, why on earth not many insurance companys add on business for free, others charge £40ish a year which i feel the employers can pay

tbh i wouldnt employ this woman as your nanny

With 3 years sole charge childcare experience, what could I expect to be paid in Scotland?

The sole charge childcare has been a mixture of nannying and working for a charity as a lone childcare worker, within the child's home, doing what a nanny would've.

Thanks

PS Sorry for hi jack, I meant to start a new thread!!!