Help please with problem re giving notice to childminder

[Tikkabillajive]

Can anyone help me with this as I really want to avoid a dispute and falling out with my childminder.

My ds has been with her since the start of the year and it has been a very positive experience for all of us. However for various reasons (cost, logistics, DS's friendship group etc) I have decided to move him to the local preschool in September and luckily a place came up for him last week. Although he has a term time only place with her, he had been with her last week on Monday and Tuesday, but the next date he was due to go to her wasn't until 6 September. On Friday morning I emailed her thanking her for being so brilliant and explaining about preschool, and effectively giving our notice in writing. She wrote back saying she understood completely but that as we had given notice during 'time off', and as she is going on holiday in one week's time she would only have a week to fill the space for September, we would need to pay the fees for the whole of September as well as August which we have already paid for.

Am I wrong in thinking it's incorrect of her to say that I gave notice in a period of leave, when I actually gave notice in what was a working week, as he had been with her on Monday and Tuesday that week? Also, does it really count as a period of leave when we are still paying 50% fees (we pay this for all holiday even when she is away, and full fees on Bank Holiday Mondays even though she does not work on these days).

It might be worth adding that she told me on Tuesday last week that she has a waiting list for September. Also that when she took DS she had to apply to go 'over numbers' for him, originally she could only take 3 children, but as she knew she had a child leaving later in the year she got dispensation from Ofsted to take 4 children - but she now seems to be saying that she permanently needs to fill 4 spaces as I know she already has 3 other children on Mondays and Tuesdays in September.

Sorry this is so long, but I am feeling really stressed about this. We can't really afford to pay the September fees as well as preschool fees, but I don't want to be unreasonable about it and I really don't want to finish things on a sour note when it has been a happy and positive period in DS's life.

I'd really appreciate any advice!

Hi, I am a cm and in my contract it states that all parties have to give 4 weeks notice to changes or cancellation of the terms of the contract.

I cant see that it makes much difference if she is on holiday although I suppose she has a point about not being around to advertise but thats just life, running q small business has its ups and downs.

check the contract you signed and see her notice details,

good luck

4 weeks noticve is 4 weeks notice, not 4 weeks of them being home notice. talking the mic i think

Thanks thebody. The contract clause she stated reads: "Notice of termination of the Contract by either party must be given in writing. Such notice of termination must not be given during a period of the childminders or parent time off".

I can understand this, but it just seems a bit much to say that we'd given notice in 'time off', when the notice came at the end of a normal working week. Also when we had literally just paid our fees for August.

TBH I'm leaning towards just paying it because I'd hate the stress of having any dispute with her and don't want things to turn sour - but it does make things awfully tight for us in September.

Any other advice welcome!

the only thing you need to think about is what your contract says. 4 weeks notice is what standard contracts say. check yours or ask her tyhe show you where it says that it has to be 4 working weeks notice

i would argue that it was given during a working week.

Thanks amy175 - stupidly I don't have a copy of the contract to check against, I have a feeling it wasn't returned to me originally, but our home paperwork is so disorganised it is quite possibly at the bottom of a pile here somewhere!

But yes I agree that it was given during a working week.

So hard to balance this sort of situation!

Would the 4 weeks not be counted from the week you gave notice, excluding time the CM is away? Thus if CM away for 1 week then in effect it's 5 weeks of notice.

End of the day pay what you feel is reasonable and justify why you feel it is reasonable given the terms of the contract. Then if the CM wants to dispute it they can take it through SmallClaims, though that may not be worth their while, up to them.

Hi nannynick, I think by 'time off' she is counting the whole of the summer holidays (even though we pay a retainer for the whole holiday), not just her week away.

I think we are going to suggest that we just pay what she usually gets via our childcare vouchers and not the rest of the month's fees on top of that. Will mull it over some more before I reply to her though, so any further insights would be really helpful, thanks everyone.

I do term time only contracts and if anyone wants to give notice I make it very clear that notice must be given in term time only and not during time off.If they do give notice in holiday time the notice period starts when the term starts. It is quite normal for term time only contracts.

ah now if he was with her out-of-contracted-hours last week then yes she has a case for saying the period of notice commences from September

Sorry if that was unclear - she is basically saying that even though we gave notice last week when DS had been with her at the start of the week, she counts that as giving notice during 'time off' - which apparently makes the next few weeks of summer holiday null and void as a notice period, even though we pay for it while he isn't there, so our notice period effectively starts at the beginning of September.

So she is getting 2 months' paid by us when DS isn't there with her.

Ugh - hate situations like this. Can't stand confrontation but also can't stand being ripped off!

Sounds like a standard NCMA contract to me. As mentioned, I would also argue the working week point - as a childminder, I would have accepted your notice. Had it been the following week, I would not have. Unfortunately you can't really check for sure who is in the right unless you seek proper legal advice - if your childminder is an NCMA member she can get free legal representation if the dispute is for fees over £150. So if it is and she feels strongly about it, she may well quite easily go that route.

From an outsiders point of view though I do think you're in the right.

X-posts Danthe4th and PueriSimilisCanis - your points are really helpful as it seems perhaps she is not being unreasonable (which makes me feel better in a funny way as I don't want to feel negative about her, even if it does mean we are out of pocket!)

have a good search for your contract after bedtime? then you will be able to see exactly what the score is

good luck

Can you offer to meet her halfway and pay for 2 weeks of September?

I thought that notice period was not to include periods of holiday, so the childminder's holiday wouldn't be included?

If it's an NCMA contract, give them a ring for advice. In fact, give them a ring anyway: they can probably help you sort out what is fair and what is not.

Sorry, I've been out for the afternoon, but thanks all for your advice. It seems like it's rather a grey area and I'm still slightly torn between contesting it or just settling it for the sake of goodwill. Several times this afternoon, ds has mentioned things that he's done with his childminder, which reminds me how happy he's been with her, so with that in mind perhaps I should take the option that will cause least bad feeling!

Great tip re calling the NCMA, thanks Tanith, I think I might do that tomorrow before making my mind up.

And will definitely have a hunt for the contract this evening although I have now had a glass of wine so can't imagine I'll be successful!

Thanks so much, you've all been very helpful - good old mumsnet as my DH said!

Snooch and Runoutofideas I just wanted to say thanks for your input as I had namechecked everyone else (I think!)

Snooch, it's especially good to get another childminder's point of view on this, especially as you think I'm in the right .

I stipulate that notice must be given in term time for term time contracts, so for me, if term ended on Wednesday and you wanted to give notice on Thursday, then it would not take effect until September. That is normal in my experience, and seems fair to me. There are absolutely loads of parents looking in July for childcare in September, so I could well be referring people elsewhere only to be let down by an existing parent once most people are sorted out for the autumn term. You don't have to move your child, it is your choice and I would say probably worth having a tight month if you think it's in your son's interests.

Thanks minderjinx. I think we've decided just to accept the payment without an argument, as it does seem to be a standard contract clause like you say, and it seems that she is within her rights to charge us that, however steep it may seem to us. And anyway my overriding feeling is that I want our time with her to end on a positive note, not with a wrangle over money.

Now v much looking forward to October when we will only have the comparatively peanuts pre-school fees to pay!