Nanny left 3yo unattended, what do I do?

[Catilla]

I don't often post on MN but have been lurking for several years. Unfortunately this is the first time I've felt the need to call on the collective wisdom that is Mumsnet.

My nanny has been with us for almost 6 months, and is our second nanny. She cares for DS (6) and DD (3) four days a week. She is lovely with the children and generally strikes a nice balance of interaction and discipline.

Today while out enjoying the summer holidays, an incident occurred: for some reason she left DD playing on playground apparatus while she took DS to get a drink at another part of the playground. For some reason DD decided that because she couldn't see nanny & DS, they must have left, so she walked out of the playground into the (big) park. Luckily she was "found" by a friendly other (stranger) mum who recognised her from earlier. After scouring the playground, nanny & DS came out of the gate and found DD.

It sounds like she has been quite panicked by the whole incident and handled the conversation with DD reasonably well. BUT IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

She told me about it just about as soon as she saw me afterwards, and was quite honest. However she didn't apologise or really indicate that she understands the fault was entirely hers. So now we are trying to decide how to handle this.

It seems the options are (she has a contract):

• dismiss for gross misconduct: lack of supervision (is this really gross misconduct?)... and we need new childcare immediately
• dismiss with notice, which she either works or we pay in lieu
• start disciplinary process: verbal/written/dismissal
• just discuss with her
• ignore (not an option!)

Can I go straight to written warning due to seriousness, so that if anything like this happens again she is out?

By way of background, I do have a number of other, less serious concerns, but the biggest are
(i) she has left DD with other people temporarily while collecting DS - people I know but without my explicit permission
(ii) she has previously shown less-than-ideal judgement on safety issues eg. letting DD go too far ahead on her scooter
The others are mostly niggles about not remembering to do things the way I've asked her to, and not being as clean & tidy as I'd like.

Can you please help me decide how to approach this?
And if I allow her the chance to improve, how to make sure she doesn't just hide such incidents from me.

Thankyou!

Goodness, I have just finished a nanny position with 7 years old twin boys, I didn't like them going out of my sight! They live on a little island where the danger is not like the main-land but as I am being paid to keep them safe, I would not do this with them!

I find it scary that someone would be happy to be out of sight of a 3 year old, even in a fenced in playground, even for 2 minutes. Things happen so quickly with children.

I didn't even like letting the boys go in the mens bathroom!

Maybe I am just a worrier?!

But I won't change!

I got sacked for a lot less and as a former nanny I think you should get rid.

I don't have a nanny, and am quite relaxed most the time with my 2yo. I would call that gross misconduct and sack her RIGHT NOW. I wouldnt give her the opportunity to endanger my DD one more time.

If you absolutely don't want to sack her, I'd have a chat and gage her reaction. IF she is suitably aware that it's not acceptable, give a verbal warning and assurance next time it will be the end of the job. If not, I'd say something like "so due to this, I'm going to have to let you go" at the end of the conversation. Sort of play it by ear a little. Honestly, no apology or awareness this was her fault indicates lack of caring to me and I'd hate DD to be looked after by someone so lax.

Good luck with this, not a situation I'd like to be in especially if it means you'll be without care until you find another nanny. Can you get time off work?

Personally it shows very poor judgement on the nanny's part and with the other incidents shows a pattern of poor judgement to dangers and the dc wellbeing and safety.

I feel that very possibly the main/only reason she told you is that your dd would/could have said something and possibly other mothers might tell you of the incident.

Oh and i would look at terminating employment or very specific ground rules especially now school is out.

Have you considered just asking her to go? Is there no mutual option for cessation of the contract, without you having to go the whole hog of written dismissal etc? It all sounds a bit full on when obviously what she has done is not great, but IMO was an indication of someone not totally au fait with the protocol = I mean the best practise type protocol.

I can imagine most parents have had a similar lapse of judgment at some point, so it isn't as appalling as a lot of things could have been - but then it's not good either.

I would discuss your concerns with her and make her aware you would like to find someone you feel more similar to in your approach. Thank her for the good points she has shown and ask her to look for alternative employment - say you want her too asap or may have to resort to official paperwork if you find someone suitable straight away, so they can take over.

Mutual termination of contract is going to look far better on her CV than your written notice or dismissal, so therefore incentive for her to go away quickly.

There is such a thing as a mutual separation agreement and I have discussed this with an employment lawyer in connection with our first nanny a few years ago. I think she called it 'agreeing terms.' But from memory I don't think it's as simple as telling her to find another job OR ELSE you start the process of formally dismissing her. But maybe I'm wrong. I think this is a reasonable route here but I would be a bit clearer about what the legal steps are.

I thought I'd replied on this but I'm with the majority that it's grounds for instant dismissal due to gross misconduct, you should have a very stern chat which definitely counts as a verbal warning and see how it goes then at the end either say 'this is a formal warning' or 'taking all this into account I'm afraid I can't trust you with the children, what you did was gross misconduct and I'd like to you to return the keys to me now please.'

It might leave you up shit creek wrt childcare but the cost of a temp (usually fairly easy to find!) is more than worth it to ensure your child's safety.

If she didn't work yesterday you need to have this chat first thing Monday morning, so have a backup plan for childcare!

How much sole charge exp has she had? Curious as to whether her previous exp was in a nursery. NOt that all nursery carers would do this AT ALL but I'm wondering whether she's finding it hard to adjust to being the only person keeping an eye on her charges.

I think its hard to say without knowing what the layout/distances involved where.

I know your DD says she couldn't see the nanny, but is that a 3yo not being able to see her if you know what I mean?

When DD was the same age I took her to a pub and met friends for lunch. We were sat outside and DD was using the outside playground. As far as I was concerned I was keeping an eye on what I thought was the only gate in/out of the playground. I couldn't see the whole of the playground so DD wasn't in sight the whole time but to me that was fine as she couldn't get out without me seeing her and she knew where we were.

Next thing I know the barmaid is coming across the car park bringing DD back to me. There was another way out, she'd gone out and had a right panic as she couldn't see me. I was oblivious.

Sometimes things like this will happen, not good and I felt awful but I do think it was an easy enough mistake to make.

I don't have 2 kids but imagine it would be hard to keep an eye on both of them 100% of the time if they're on different equipment, etc. Do you think if you said to her that next time you'd prefer she took DD to the refreshment kiosk she would follow this?

I've had the odd scare (not like that but other things) as a PARENT but like I said earlier, when I'm working, I'm PAID to keep these children safe and yes, looking out for 6 young children is hard but I just have to grab all kids each time someone wants the toilet, have to stick to an area at a time and the children understand that we move on together etc. I do understand that maybe she hasn't had this experience etc. but tbh, that doesn't excuse it just confirms that she's not so clued up on safety and I personally couldn't have that if I was paying them to look after the most precious thing(s) I have in the world. I also think the lack of a major apology is odd as if this happened to me, I'd be telling the parent with the biggest apology and I'd probably cry as I told them!!

We childcarers are supposed to be able to handle things better than a parent imo.

Sorry to harp on - can you tell I'm a safety freak!!!

Agree with looneytune. My cm is definitely more vigilant with safety than most parents you see when out and about. She wouldn't take her eyes off ds when out.
I'm the same with my you g students. Looking after someone else's dc makes you even more careful. To leave a child that young where you can't see her is just mind boggling. Anything could happen. Yes things can happen before your eyes as well but you have a bigger chance of preventing some things if you're watching. Like what happened here.

I have to agree with the majority here that she acted wrongly and needs to recognise that. I do think you need to be looking for another nanny if she can be so flippant with your childrens' safety. The fact that she was gone long enough for your dd to wander off out of sight and be found by another person (who was luckily very nice by the sound of it!) would be ringing alarm bells for me.
I'm also a nanny and have two charges as well as my ds. When one of us goes somewhere, we all go. For instance, my eldest (5) has often asked me if he can stay in the playground while I take one of the younger ones to the toilet. The answer has always been no. My charges' safety and wellbeing is paramount.

Thanks everyone for your input on this - we've been away for the weekend.
We did decide on Thursday night to give her notice on Friday morning, and I took Friday off to look after the children.
We decided to give the one month's notice which is in the contract, and she has taken it very well and agreed to work the 2 weeks until we go on holiday. DH did a fantastic job of just stating the facts and not getting into details & excuses like I would. I felt down and quite sick about it, I hate conflict but the children's safety has to come first - the point of childcare is to reduce our stress, not increase it! Now I've been debating how much I need to "supervise" her for that period, and decided that since I can't keep them all within my sight I will have to rely on her raised awareness of safety after this incident and a little more keeping track of where she's going.

Next question is of course how to select a new nanny whose judgement will be better. I have an inbox full of responses to my ad, all with different pros & cons. No matter how much I think about criteria, it still feels like gut instinct is a good indicator of this (which doesn't suit my logical nature!).

Any particularly good interview questions out there??

"...but the children's safety has to come first - the point of childcare is to reduce our stress, not increase it!"

I couldn't agree with you more!

Glad you have made your decision and begun to execute it. Getting a new nanny is very stressful, but once you have one in place you feel as if the workd has been lifted from your shoulders.

For nanny interviews, I would ask quite a few openeded questions with "What would you do?" sort of situations.

1- You are at the park and DS wants a drink. DD is playing happily. What would you do? (okay that was obvious)

2- DD falls off of playground equipment and lies still for about ten seconds. It takes you 15 second to get her. She is standing up but not quite herself, a bit dizzy. Mum of child who pushed her off says "Oh, good I see she is okay." DD is very sleepy. What would you do?

The above are classic signs of concussion. You are looking for nanny to say she will get DD (and DS!) to A&E the fastest way she knows how.

3- You are with DS, DD, and DD's friend who is 4. You run into a nanny friend who invite you all to a party starting in an hour. There is one too few car seats in the car for all of the kids. Which child should ride without a car sear?

Obiously, the answer is none of them!

4- If I asked you to teach DS/DD to ride a bike/scooter, what things would you cover in relation to road safety? And how would you communicate those things in an age appropriate fashion to a 3/4 year old?

well done for giving notice, it must have been a hard thing to do,esp leaving you without childcare glad nanny took it well, tbh she didnt have a choice

good luck with finding a new nanny, if in doubt i would hire a temp for a few weeks to find the right/pefect nanny

Glad she took it calmly Catilla and all the best in the search.

Thanks again, and especially Strix for the tips... yes I had thought of crafting questions around the specific problems I've experienced.

What do any of you nannies think about this type of question? It always seems so fake - but then you get a candidate who doesn't have a clue and that brings home how dippy some people can be!

As a nanny - yes, these sorts of questions can be daunting and sometimes you just need a minute to work the senario through your head. But any good nanny should be able to give you a reasonable answer.

As a nanny I quite like those questions! I know they're crafted scenarios but it means that parents are looking to see whether our ideas are in line wrt supervision etc.

Obviously some of them are ones where you know the right answer or you don't (first aid etc) but other open ones can be very telling. I always finish my answer with an opportunity for parents to feed back what they would do/expect, so don't always give clear cut situations. Any half decent nanny would (I hope) be able to answer questions 1,2 and 3 without revealing any of their personal tendencies. 4 is more interesting.

I got asked which child I would save in a fire!!!!! At the end of the day parents all really want to know that their little monsters angels will be kept as safe as possible at all times. I like the "what would you do..." scenarios as it also makes ME think of all the things that could go wrong. It's all very well having First Aid training but that won't help if your 3 year old charge disappears in Tesco Mega Super Gigantor Store. I also have Fire Plans with my bosses, as well as Intruder Plans, Flood Plans, Plane/Car Crash Plans, Terrorist Attack Plans and Kidnap Plans (yes really)... I have requested Russell Crowe as my hostage negotiator

Anyhoo, ask as many questions as it takes to get all the answers you need to feel comfortable with the potential nanny. After all, they will be looking after your most precious things and you need to feel that they will have the childrens safety and wellbeing as their highest priority, and also that in the case of an emergency that they will keep their wits about them and deal appropriately with everything.

I don't have an probs with What would you do? questions as often they are asked out of personal experience either by the family or someone close to them.

But you have to be careful with too many changes of the carer yr Dcs feelings are also important. I can see you had a problem with the ex nanny.

Ppeatfruit the dc will be absolutely fine. I changed carers when ds was just 16 months. It was great for him! He's doing really well, is secure and happy don't worry about it, op. You're doing the right thing.

What would you do questions can be useful but don't rely to much on them, if hiring an expereined nanny she sould be able to give examples of real situations, something like,

can you tell me about a first aid situation you have dealt with, then ask probing questions as to what they did with other charges when dealing with situation.

Many paretns ask the same type of questiosn and its easy to 'talk' a good nanny, whereas an experienced one should be able to give real examples

Good luck