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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Advice for childcare whilst CM is on holiday

21 replies

Finns · 22/07/2010 07:44

Thanks for the very helpful advice on my other thread. I think we've decided to go with the recommended CM. Next problem for me is that her terms are she gets 5 weeks holiday (and Bank holidays) at full pay. Bank holidays I can manage to cover fine as I don't work them. But 5 week holiday cover is my full holiday allowance and doesn't leave me any leeway if DS is ill (or CM is ill). DH is self employed and will do what he can to help cover but in reality much of it will come down to me.

Do nurseries ever allow children to come on such a short term basis (ie a week)? We will have a couple of months notice for hols CM takes, so it won't be last minute? Or is it poss to get a temporary nanny (do they even exist?!) I am assuming that they would expect a higher hourly rate than normal long term nannies (which will make it an expensive week as we'll have to pay CM and them, but needs must!). I mentioned the problem to my parents but I got the impression not to expect help from them re this (to be fair they live some distance away and this is our problem) and DH parents are too elderly, so I need to sort outside family help.

OP posts:
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LoveMyGirls · 22/07/2010 07:52

I'm a childminder and I know quite a few childminders that I see regularly through the week so when I'm on holiday and parents need cover I can usually find someone who can help out and who already know the children I look after.

HSMM · 22/07/2010 08:00

She may be able to find another CM to cover. Are all her 5 weeks at her choice, or do some of them have to coincide with your holidays? Do all the CMs in your area charge for their holidays? (I don't).

(Hopefully this won't spark off into another debate about CMs charging hols)

Finns · 22/07/2010 08:12

Her finding another CM to cover wasn't mentioned when we met (and I know from other people who have used her that hasn't happened so I think CM thinks (in nicest possible way) that its our problem.

All of 5 weeks are CM's choice, so my hols will have to be entirely dictated by her holiday times unless I can build in a bit of flexibility with additional care.

Not really sure what is standard here, different people seem to have diff expectations, but other CMs have seen have 4 weeks hols.

She might be asking for more than average with 5 weeks (plus 1 week sick pay if ill), but I really like her and think DS would thrive, so am keen to work around her requirements as best we can.

OP posts:
HSMM · 22/07/2010 08:40

The relationship you have with your minder is just as important as the contractual arrangements, so if you are happy, that's great. It might be worth getting to know some of the other mindees parents, because you might be able to help each other out during holiday times?

minderjinx · 22/07/2010 12:19

I have had children to look after short term while usual carers (generally nannies) have been on holiday from both childcare.co.uk and emergencycare.co.uk. They might be worth a look - and no I don't work for either of these companies!

EmMum06 · 22/07/2010 14:57

Ask your CM if she knows of any local CM's that would be willing or available to cover her hols.

Strix · 22/07/2010 15:19

5 weeks of paid holiday for someone who is not your employee?!?!?!

You'll have to pay for childcare twice when she goes on hols.

Blimey!

Finns · 22/07/2010 20:09

Strix, I know, I did feel a bit gobsmacked when she told us those were her standard terms! Other CM I have found here charges 4 weeks hols though, and this one is highly recommended, does the early start/late finishes we need and also he will be only charge at least one day, poss two days a week.

I did consider after we'd spoken to her whether a nanny would be better due to hols but think we'd have to get a nanny share to make it work financially (CM rate is £4.50 an hour) and even then I thought nannies were more expensive than £9 gross an hour (we're in herts, just inside M25) (plus don't know anyone to share with!)

OP posts:
Strix · 22/07/2010 21:54

What about a nursery and an aupair to do any extended hours the nursery doesn't do?

Or what about working out how much she would need to charge hourly to make the same money in a year but not charging for her hols. This might mean paying 4.75 per hour. I don't know. I haven't done the math.

If you pay her for her hols then she has no incentive not to take lots of them. And you are right that you are left with nothing to cover when your child is ill or when she can't work.

Does she want sick pay too?

ChildrenAtHeart · 22/07/2010 23:36

The EYFS Welfare requirements actually require your CM to have some kind of back up arrangement for holidays and sick cover. This doesn't mean she has to arrange them but she should at least have one or two alternative cm's who act as her back up, though she cant guarantee their availability. As a member of a Network & CM group I have a list of about 6 minders in my area who I and my minded chn know well and we provide cover for each other. Our local CM group also has a Vacancy Coordinator who sends out emails to our group for parents looking for care, inc holiday cover so it may be worh asking your cm if there is anything similar in your area.
You could also check out websites such as childcare.co.uk or emergencychildcare.co.uk

Finns · 23/07/2010 00:47

Strix, problem is not the pay but rather she actually wants the time off (which I can understand, but its that fact rather than the money thats causing the problem).

Only 1 nursery round here takes under 2's and I'm not very keen having been on a show round (I could put up with for a week if need be but not for long term). We also don't have a spare room, so au pair is not a possibility.

Week sick pay (although from speaking to person we know who has used her for last year, she didn't have any time off sick).

I think I may have to put up with it and use parental leave/time off for dependants if we're stuck. At 2 DS can go to a really good nursery as well as CM, so will probably do half and half, so this problem should reduce massively.

I will however ask her if she knows any CMs who can cover, although I didn't get the impression she did.

OP posts:
Blondeshavemorefun · 23/07/2010 16:53

5weeks and all bh off at full pay for a se person seems a bit

if its the time rather than the money and you are happy to pay double costs for those weeks then a temp nanny would prob be your best solution

these can be found by advertising yourself on netmums/nanny/gumtree stating the weeks you need or go through an agency

StarExpat · 23/07/2010 21:08

Can you negotiate with her? I would. I'd say what I'm willing to pay...not holidays...

It's insane to have to pay double for childcare... I honestly don't think charging for sick and holidays is the norm for cms.

ChunkyChick · 23/07/2010 21:34

Wow, my full-time nanny only gets four weeks' paid holiday. And only gets three days' paid sick leave before statutory sick leave kicks in.

StarExpat · 23/07/2010 21:41

Does she have a waiting list? She likely knows you're keen. But you could just say that you can't accept those terms.... Walk away and see I she'll negotiate. If she really wants your business, she will most likely. Or is that out of line (cms?)
If it were some little thing like including nappies or playgroup costs is just think ok her terms, deal with it. But having to pay double childcare costs for potentially 6 weeks per year? This is too much to ask.

Tanith · 25/07/2010 19:51

It's risky, StarExpat. In my area, no childminder has places available. As a vacancies co-ordinator, I'm passing on details, but having to warn parents that they're unlikely to find a place unless they're looking a long way in advance.

If the OP's area is like this, she'll most likely lose the place. If the CM has a waiting list and can pick and choose), she won't worry too much about a client that won't pay what she wants.

I'd also like to add that it's absolutely nothing to do with anyone else what this childminder charges. Swings and roundabouts. Her service, her terms, her charges. She clearly has parents who are very happy with her and are prepared to pay for the service she provides. You have no idea what is included, or even what her fees are, so how can you possibly say how she should or should not be charging? It's up to her how she runs her business and up to the parents to decide if the package as a whole is for them.

StarExpat · 25/07/2010 20:08

I guess if there is a vacancy shortage then you do have to pay it. You're right. I have no idea what her package is so I can't make a judgement about it. It's her choice as she runs her own business.
All I do know is that it would be way too much for me to pay double childcare for 6 weeks especially when we already pay for school holidays + as dh and I are both teachers with different term times.
We just couldn't afford it. Luckily our area (in Surrey) isn't like yours. Do you think it's a shortage if cms or just a lot of families with young kids in your area?
It makes me so to see a shortage of cms in some areas. I know ofsted has a purpose but I think all of the hoops put people off. Which is a shame.

EvaLongoria · 25/07/2010 21:46

I used to be a childminder and now uses a childminder for my DD. most childminders doesnt charge when they are on holiday or when they are sick but will charge if parents are on holiday or child is sick.

But because they are self-employed they can do what they want. But to pay a childminder 5 weeks holiday when u need to find alternate childcare for that 5 weeks are a lot.

CrispyTheCrisp · 25/07/2010 21:52

I am gobsmacked at 5 weeks!!

My CM has 2 weeks holiday on her dates and then usually from Xmas Eve to 2nd Jan which is not a problem for us to cover as we have this off anyway. This is all unpaid

However, i guess if competition is tight then you have to 'suck it up' but i would not be happy. I am surprised if all CM are full though - round here loads have vacancies due to parents redundancies

Tanith · 27/07/2010 11:46

I'm sorry: I didn't intend to single you out with my comments, StarExpat.

I do get cross when people (not just you) try to tell us what we should or should not be charging without looking at the whole picture or considering that another parent's needs are different from theirs.

I was once told by a parent that Mumsnet mums were saying I shouldn't be charging as much as I did. She said a childminder in the next town was shocked I was charging so much.
Yet I knew, from other posts and because I knew her, that she would be charging for meals, overtime, late fees, playgroup fees, outings and a whole lot of extras, all of which are included in my rate. She wouldn't be providing the same level of service as I would, and I knew, because I'd heard her say so, that she refused to work after hours - I often need to have the children very late, even overnight at short notice.

In your own situation, the childminder wouldn't suit. In the OPs situation, she's probably ideal for the hours she works, her flexibility and, because the OP works during holidays, those holidays can be co-ordinated so she isn't paying twice - presumably she, too, takes holiday herself.
A childminder who doesn't work holidays, or who will do a term-time only contract would be fine for you, but not necessarily for the OP.

I just wish people would bear these things in mind before insisting that childminders have no right to charge for their holidays or bank holidays, or higher fees or the many things that some Mumsnetters seem to think are "wrong". Like me, those childminders have probably worked out the rates and charges that work best for them and the clients they hope to attract. We can do that because we're self-employed and don't have to follow everyone else's rules.

StarExpat · 27/07/2010 18:19

I actually forgot that in most jobs you can choose your holidays... So she could indeed coordinate with the cm's! I don't choose my holidays (not that I mind because I have loads of them) but I didn't think that way... So of course she'll be able to work t out. Hopefully some coincide with school hols so she can spend some time with her kids during the cms chosen hols.

I agree with you, Tanith and I agree that I sounded out of line with some of that. I just know that you only pay for a service that suits you. If it suits op then great

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