Childminder holiday fees

[mugelbbub]

I am a teacher and will not be requiring the services of my childminder for the school holidays. Her rate is half pay over the holidays, which I understand to be the norm, but she also requires an additional 2 weeks full pay as her holiday pay. All the children she minds are teachers children and she makes it policy not to work in the school holidays as she has her own children. The half fee I understand is the retainer, but I already paid a retainer fee of nearly £2000 when I decided to use her service back in January. Does this all seem normal? It all seems alittle excessive the cost of looking after the baby myself!

Please be aware that every childminder is different.

I have some parents who use my services during term time only and some who use it most of the time, as kids under school age.

I do not charge those who require term time only a retainer fee or any other fee for not using me during the hols. However if I choose to take on children during the hols I can use the space avail for hols only. As I have four kids myself I choose not to take on any extra children during the hols.

Sounds like you are fully aware of what you have agreed to in the contract. Each childminder will do things differently, so there isn't really a norm. A retainer does sound fairly common. Full pay for CM's own holiday is not as common, though there are CM's who charge that.

Instead of looking at the fees on a weekly/monthly basis... Look at it over a full 1 year period. That way you can then compare it to other providers.

Some providers may not provide any term-time only deals... so they may charge full-fee regardless of if your child is attends or not.

Is it all about money? While it is certainly a factor, there are other things that will make you select one childcare provider over another. For example how well you and your child get on with the person providing the care... the quality of that care, the availability of that care.

"I already paid a retainer fee of nearly £2000 when I decided to use her service back in January."
That may have been to hold the place for your child. Without further information it would be hard to know what that payment is for - I would guess a combination of things: a months pay in advance, a retainer for days between signing contract and child actually starting.

Ok, I would have said a retainer is normal, however, if she makes it policy not to work over the holidays how the hell can she justify charging anything??? I may have mis-understood you on this? If I haven't, I'm sure the norm is to charge a retainer but the space is available if needed?

As for holiday pay - this is up the the childminder and you decide whether or not to agree to it. I don't charge, others do.

As for the £2000 retainer in the past, if this was because you were securing the place in advance then that would have been for that period and nothing to do with the rest. But like nannynick said, we need a bit more info on that.

Ok, I would have said a retainer is normal, however, if she makes it policy not to work over the holidays how the hell can she justify charging anything??? I may have mis-understood you on this? If I haven't, I'm sure the norm is to charge a retainer but the space is available if needed?

As for holiday pay - this is up the the childminder and you decide whether or not to agree to it. I don't charge, others do.

As for the £2000 retainer in the past, if this was because you were securing the place in advance then that would have been for that period and nothing to do with the rest. But like nannynick said, we need a bit more info on that.

You pay half fees all summer when she is not available for work?

She must be the best chldminder on the planet with a triple pushchair made of diamonds.

LOL at 'triple pushchair made of diamonds'

She cannot charge for 2wks holiday during a time when she is not prepared to work. That sounds ridiculous.
I would say the half pay over the summer is reasonable if she worked it and needs retaining. But if she isn't prepared to work sch hols but still expects to be paid, that's shocking.

Of course, she can charge what she likes andf if you sign, you sign but she may as well charge you for weekends.

Again - she expects a retainer but not willing to work it????

I have just signed on a teacher and also charging 50% over holidays, but only because I do work in the holidays and the mindee will be under 5 and count in my numbers. Her place will be available at full fee should she wish to use it.

That is fair enough she is charging retainer during the holidays - it will be a reservation retainer to hold the space open. If you are charging a retainer however - the space MUST be available for the client to use (subject to top up fees and adequate notice). If she is not prepared to work or open for business though then ideally she should not be charging a retainer. (I might be wrong on this point though). I am charging a holiday retainer for one of my clients as she doesn't need me in the holidays BUT I am willing to and open for business/work. Her choice not to use my services during that time, but the space is there if she needs it. If I closed in the holidays then I would not charge.

she can negotiate paid time of with you but again i do not think its right thats it during a time that she is not prepared to work - although for you the alternative is her taking paid time of when you need her - ie term time so the balance of this lies with you.
It might be worth you contacting NCMA for further advice: 0845 880 0044

pippin26, with great respect, I believe you are wrong. A number of my minding friends charge retainers to cover the summer holidays for all the teachers and college lecturers children they mind, but if they do work, it is double fee. They have it written into their contracts. One of them minds the two children of the Senior Lecturer in Law at our nearby Uni, so I doubt that that parent would let the childminder get it wrong!!!

Millenium - these people are prepared to work for a top up fee. This CM seems to be charging a retainer, but not prepared to work. I would have thought a retainer 'retains the space', so it should be available?

just depends on the contract doesn't it? there are no laws for such things. cm can charge what she likes, however unreasonable it sounds. especially when folk like the op are willing to pay it.

Hi Millenium - according to NCMA you cannot charge a retainer for a space that is not available. i have just had a HUGE wrangle with NCMA over similar issues and got them to clarify things.

when you say your colleagues charge 'double' fee' what do you mean?
when a retainer is charge - its holding an open space - if/when that space is used then the normal fee applies -meaning the client 'tops up' making it the normal fee.

That is exactly my problem with NCMA trying to tell registered childminders how to run their business when it is our business to run, not the NCMA's. It is up to me to decide on how I handle deposits, retainers, holiday pay, payment for bank holidays etc. - I have never come across an organisation before that tries to gets its members all operating their businesses on the same business model. I think that too many of their recommendations are in favour of the parent and not the person that they are meant to be supporting - the childminder!!

Exactly right ruddynorah. A retainer charged is not an offer to work - it retains the space but gives the parent no right of access to that space until the date upon which the two sides have agreed to start the minding - why does this sound unreasonable - the childminder should run his/her business the way they want whilst mindful of the law (NOT NCMA recommendations).

It is also important to remember that the contract does not start on the first day of minding - it starts when the agreement between the two sides is reached which may be 4 weeks or perhaps 4 months in advance. It is therefore important for both sides to get that signed and dated contract in place straight away.

So many minders I see in the networks date their contracts to start on the first day they will be minding - NO, the contract should start straight away with the contract making clear when the first day of minding is so that all the terms and conditions are immediately binding on both parties.

Sorry pippin26, I didn't answer your question. A 50% retainer is charged for the 8 week summer break and if the parent wants minding during that time then they pay what would have been the normal rate as well so in fact, it is not double time, it would be time and a half - sorry............

I know, imagine an organisation for childminders trying to make sure childminders don't get a reputation for being a bunch of greedy gougers by charging retainer fees when they are on holidays.

Sharp practises like that are not just bad for parents, they are bad for other childminders.

I would never use a childminder so greedy that they would try to get me to pay them half their fee when they weren't available to work.

Greed might be a good quality in a banker (although I disagree) but it is certainly not in someone who cares for my children.

Cheers Millenium for clarifying.

I would strongly urge all minders who have issues with ncma to let the customer services manager know. He sorted out my problem pronto. his name is Richard Aris - really lovely bloke and very keen to pulling the NCMA into line so that it is actually helping its members, so they NEED to know the problems and issues we have.
unless we let NCMA know what they are doing wrong (or right) then they can't change anything. even those who have defected to MM.

I agree that the NCMA's one size fits all, dictate what we should/shouldn't be doing is wrong.

pippin26, you are so right. Unless the NCMA becomes fully aware of its members' concerns then it is not being given the best chance to put things right. I have heard others commending the efforts of Richard Aris. I remain a member of NCMA but do not use any of their documentation.

Picking up on skidoodly's comment, are you saying that you do not accept that some childminders will charge for their own holiday and training days which as I am sure you know, many do. I do not but it is an ever-growing trend and it is certainly not greed when you consider that many (but not all), parents of mindees will get paid for their holidays and bank holidays

But If I took a term time job I would not then expect my employer to pay me through the school holidays. Mainly, because I would not be willing to work them. I cannot expect them to pay me for weeks I am not willing to work. That would be unreasonable.

Expecting a parent to pay a summer retainer is one thing if you are open over the summer and willing to have their child. However, to expect them to pay a retainer to retain a place that is closed for 6wks anyway is ridiculous. Then asking for 2wks holiday pay during then enforced closure!

Also, you say that many parents will get paid holiday so CM charging for hols is ok.

Well, I think you'll find that only employed people get holiday pay. Those parents who are self-employed will not get holiday pay. And as CMs are fond of reminding parents; they are self-employed.

I would not pay anyone "holiday pay" unless I were their employer. If I am your client you don't charge me when you are not available for work or you will lose my business.

I am a very happy user of a childminder, but would use a nursery in preference to being gouged like this.

Having to make alternative arrangements when cm is not available is a pretty big drawback to this type of care. No way am I paying for the privilege.

Skidoodly, that is entirely your perogative and its sounds like you have an agreeable arrangement with your childmnder.
However, as Millenium rightly points out - many childminders are now adding a negotiate 'holiday pay' into their contracts. I personally do not but I have been considering writing in 3 training days per year. I have in 2 years only taken days off to attend some training but for the most part all my training is in the evenings and weekends. The only reason I took the week-days off (unpaid) was that the training was excellent by some very highly respected and inspirational speakers/persons. I have also - for the last two years not worked on a Thursday as I have attended Uni - my choice and of course there was no charges made.

All childminders are different, and like parents have their ways of doing things and expectations. Just because you are of a particular mind-set doesn't mean that its right or wrong.

MILLENIUM - Richard Aris is genuinely working extremely hard to make things right within NCMA for its members. I can throughly recommend him to anyone who has had a problem for what ever reason with NCMA.

No, I suppose you can take the view that it doesn't matter if some childminders try to rip off their clients if they can get away with it.

If I were a childminder I would be displeased to have colleagues bringing my trade into disrepute by doing unprofessional things like charging when they were not available or attempting to get clients to pay for holidays and training.

I would be aware that one of the main drawbacks for people who might like to choose a childminder is the fact of occasional unavailability, and I would not be happy for there to be a general perception that this inconvenience also came with a considerable price tag.

It would embarrass me to be associated with people who were self-employed who asked for paid days off rather than building those costs into the regular fee.

I agree. Training days and paid holidays are the preserve of the employed. Your self-employed parents will not be paid for either. Whilst I know that training days could be of benefit to children, this does not change the fact that you are self-employed.

Well I suppose that is your view skidoodly. I don't really see the need to be offensive and say that childminders 'rip people off' though.
I respect my colleagues right to run their businesses as they see fit. Of course if something is blatently wrong then yes I would speak up but its not against our professional bodies' advice (and that is legal advice too).
as for building these 'costs' into our fees - if we really added it all up (the extra time and bits and bobs that get snuck in here and there, attending the childs sports day at short notice, being a last minute taxi service, rushing to get the child a packed lunch because parent has forgotten its school trip today, the amazing amount of food the children seem to be able to consume at your house, replacing all the materials/equipment, time spent cleaning, the evening and weekend time spent at training and professional development, the time spent preparing activities, writing up planning etc, then factoring in our holidays and time off - and this is just a short list) then we might become an exclusive bunch only available to those who really can afford it.
As I said, personally I do not charge for my time off (asides from BH) but I bend over backwards to help parents out when i have time off to help them arrange suitable and acceptable childcare - again at no extra cost to them. As me and certain colleagues have an agreement that we will care for each others children (subject to availability and parental agreement) at the same contracted terms, regardless if it puts us out of pocket.

It makes me so cross when you get high handed remarks such as you have made.