Query how childminder copes with different ages of kids

[Finns]

Have recently been to see potential childminder for DS (She comes very highly recommended by several friends of ours, who have used her over last ten years). Seems really nice, but I am new to all this and worried sick over leaving DS (who will be 11-12 months old when it happens).

At moment CM has 18 month old mindee(so will be 2 by time DS joins) full time. DS will be full time too (will be 11 month old). CM will also by then have a 4 month old mindee as well. How do CM's manage to combine their different needs (eg activities etc)? DS has no siblings yet so not something I've had to consider for us. Guess I'm concerned that DS' needs may be relegated as I would normally assume that activities would be worked out to see if all mindees can join in? Also CM has a biggish car, so presumably will be able to transport 3, but are there such things as triple buggies or will they be restricted to going in the car? When we met her she said she had a double buggy (obv not yet an issue as 4 month old mindee not even been born yet), but I am just trying to address potential problems.

I will obviously talk to CM about this, but wondered if I'm being a bit precious about this!

Also there is a musical class we would particularly like DS to join in (nearby). Would it be offensive if we asked CM to take him and offered to pay the entry fee for the 18 month old (as his parent shouldn't need tto bear the cost for something we particualrly want DS to do)?

Thanks in advance for any help/telling me to stop being so precious!

You should definitely ask your CM about this. I am a CM and I have to say that I have seen children really flourish when mixed with different ages. They learn so much from the older children and learn to be gentle and considerate with the younger ones.

I spent a few terms taking children to music classes (which their parents agreed to and paid for), which was lovely, but can only be done if all the parent agree. It also depends on the CM routine - school runs, nap times, lunch times, etc.

I a firmly convinced that all parents should be precious about their children (to a certain degree), so don't worry at all.

Forgot to mention activities - I simply extend them for the older children, so everyone has age appropriate things to do.

I have had a 3 year old, a 20mth old and a 6mth old and to be honest it is easy. The baby tends to be quite happy playing with toys on the floor, watching the older two, napping, sitting in a door bouncer or some such. The older child will be quite happy engaged in an activity and the middle child can often join in or do something a bit easier or just play with toys/playdough/crayons etc.

They each don't want or need the Cmers undivided attention all of the time and are quite happy to get along with their chosen activity.

I tend to just go with the flow with a loose structure to the day that is based around mealtimes and nap times and make sure I get out with them at least once during the day to a mother and toddler group or the playground. The sling I use has been a godsend and most young babies are quite content to be on my back watching what the older children are getting up to.

For outings I would either take the double buggy and put the baby in a sling or let the eldest child walk.

If a mum wanted me to take her child to a class such as the one you mentioned I would try and do it if it didn't clash with any other child's drop off or pick up time and I would expect you to pay the fee and any petrol I would be using to get there.

One of the reasons I really liked having childminders for my kids is the "family experience" they get mixing with children of different ages. My favourite childminder was always fairly busy, but she was totally able to meet the needs of all her mindees. You do need to be a bit flexible though on things like nap times and trust your minder.

I appreciate your concerns and they are very valid, but just ask yourself a question - how does a parent of multiple (birth) or several children cope. I myself have 3 children of my own but my friend is on number 10! She has 5 under 8's - 3 of them under the age of 3. Like me, she just 'does' cope.

As a childminder, I am experienced in looking after children and you develop strategies for getting them in and out of the car, feeding, napping etc. Yes you can get triple buggies, perhaps though she is planning on putting the youngest in a sling?
No I don't think it would be awful of you to ask about the music class but the minder will have to weigh up if it fits in with the other chidrens routines, cost of getting THEM into it, making sure she can ensure you child participation as well as the other children (although that to me is a minor concern as its managable).

I did notice, though, you said your LO will be 11months when he starts and there will be a 4 month old as well. I know its the sake of a month, but in the main, CM's can normally only look after 1 under the age of 12 months (unless there is a variation in place).

I have always looked after children of varying ages and only up to rising 5s.

The all entertain each other - the old ones love to "look after" the baby - one little girl I looked after until she started school was always very maternal towards the younger ones.

They will sleep (and often eat) at different times but as pippin26 said, it is not dis-similar to some family households that have three under 5s of their own.

The fact that this childminder comes "highly recommended" will hopefully dispel any concerns you have. I hope it works well for you but do check the minder's registration to confirm that she can care for two under 1s

A good cm will do this very well. Mine does it amazingly and ds benefits from having an older child to join in with and follow and learn from and a younger one so he learns to be a "big boy ", too. I love it. I am just having one child, so ds being able to experience a family like setting during dh and my term times for 8 hours per day is lovely

Thanks for all the replies - very helpful and think it has definately helped calm me down (am aware I am being a bit precious about him!). CM will have 4 month old mindee from when DS turns 12 months (sorry, not clear in my original post), as she can only have 1 under 1.

Also an aside, her ofsted report is 3, which I believe is satisfactory. I've read it, and it is very complimentary re how the children are welcolmed like part of her family and fact they do walks in parks etc - she said to me that they focus on providing a home enivronmnent. I'm assuming that as she isn't doing daily reports etc that would be the reason she wouldn't get a higher rating (she obv does do accident reports, medication reports etc, its just she doesn't do the daily reports that the only nursery we've seen does do).

Guess I'm asking for people's experience - a satisfactory ofsted rating presumably doesn't mean that CM doesn't provide first rate care, even if they don't do everything that ticks oftsted boxes?

Was about to post a very similar question today so thanks Finns. Have met a potential CM who seems very nice, lovely family etc & three older kids of her own (school aged). During school hours she is likely to have a 3 year old, 2 year old and then if we go with her, my DS who will be 1. After school and holidays she sometimes has a few other older kids in addition to her own (i.e. 9/10 year olds). Am fine with the older ones, but I can't begin to imagine juggling the needs of the 3 little ones during the day (am a first time mum and its been hard enough this year!). She is also quite new to CM (although obviously has had her own, but the age gap isn't so small). Posts very helpful so far and would really appreciate hearing from any other CM who have had this situation as like Finns, I am new to it all. Apologies if this is a bit of a hijack, but Finns' question was so similar to mine I felt it daft to do another thread. Thanks

Ofsted means nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Someone could be doing daily diaries but not have any there when ofsted visits or could never do them but did then for a week or few days prior to ofsted to show they do....

I love my cms daily diary but she would be just as good of a cm without it.

Ofsted see one day.... Oh, and paperwork! Worthless.

Sorry StarExpat - that is quite an offensive comment that 'ofsted mean nothing' and 'paperwork worthless'.
I am extremely proud of my grading that i work so diligently for. Everything i do is centered around the children and my paperwork is first rate.
You are more or less being very disrespectful to those who have worked their socks for for their gradings.
I sort of know where you are coming from though- some childminders manage to put on a show and make all the right noises on the day and they seem to get these wonderful grades by blinded inspectors. However I would NOT sweep aside gradings and Ofsted. It also depends on the inspector - if you and the inspector 'get on', what side of bed they got out of that morning, their interpretation of EYFS and what needs to be done.

Re the gradings - speak to most childminders and you will find most of them say that the (English) method of grading - the wording does not adequately reflect what we do.

The gradings are: from the bottom up:
inadequate 2 - setting is closed down
inadequate 1 - the inspector will put into place urgent actions that need to be done withing a time scale. the setting may or may not be closed down

satisfactory - means the provision is meeting all the requirement standards, regulations and elements

good - you are exceeding the minimum of what needs to be done, good knowledge base etc - 1 step up from satisfactory

outstanding - MEGA minder!!! lol - these means they are going over and above what is expected, they have good knowledge and have demonstrated it, paperwork is in tip top order (and no an outstanding minder does not neceessarily have tons of paperwork - my colleague and friends minder has half of what I do and I have a good with outstanding areas)

you can get a grading such as good with outstanding areas for instance.

even with an outstanding grading the inspector will normally find some 'fault' and give an action.

I personally have reason to have gripes about the way we are inspected, my colleague and I work very much the same, have a passion for the job and the same inspector told her (the day before) something completely different to me, the inspector also told me I didn't acheive outstanding due to the 'children I had in my care' (hubs was listening and told the inspector that wasn't fair) and because i couldn't lay hands on my car insurance - hubs had it as he had gone to pay car tax and she put it down that I did not have my car insurance immediately to hand.

Sorry pippin. It was an overstatement
Dh and I are both teachers. My school always gets outstanding and I do like it when ofsted compliment my teaching and paperwork. I, too work very very hard to get it all done and done well.
I just think that you can't make a judgement about a school, cm, nursery based on an ofsted report.
You should be proud of your good rating. I'm sorry

Also, I was ecstatic for my cm's grading and did all I could to help out.
It's the people who put on a good show and are crap or the people who are outstanding but can't provide what ofsted want... But you're right, there are plenty of cms nurseries and schools who really do earn their gradings!

Thats ok Star, i sort of knew what you meant- apology accepted and thank you. i just didn't want people to think that the gradings are totally irrelevant.

Congratulations on your schools rating too - thats a hell of an acheivement, you must all be very dedicated.

No, someone should not choose a setting based purely on their ofsted report - ofsted reports, as I accept are not the be and end all - just an indicator of quality - 99% of the time. Its like saying - just because a car has received rave reviews on top gear and in the media - it still might not be suitable for your family. (and if I, as a minder was a car I would probably be..... hmmm actually thats a good question lol....)

Any parent chosing childcare MUST go with their gut feeling - do you and your child feel comfortable and welcome etc, are there references available (not always if the minder is fairly new). A graded satisfactory childminder might just the be perfect minder for you - as you have the same values and ideals, outlook etc.

The judgement needs to be made on a number of different aspects including the Ofsted report.

Ofsted is not without a purpose. I know that there are some long-running threads on here and other sites that in particular criticise the inconsistency of Ofsted and that is a fair criticism - you contact them with an issue and they give you an answer and a couple of weeks later the same question is asked of a different employee and the answer is at variance with the original!

However, I think we all know that Ofsted are not alone in their inconsistencies - it happens with HMRC where one officer will give you one piece of advice regarding your annual childminder's tax return and another officer in a different tax office will interpret the rules differently. And its not just government departments - I find banks and building societies are often giving out conflicting answers as well depending who you speak to.

And last but by no means least, NCMA need to pull their socks up regarding accurate and consistent advice.

Ofsted may be the best of a bad job as far as regulating and inspecting childminders are concerned and hopefully there will be some improvements.

Lots of fancy-looking paperwork does not necessarily make a good childminder. I do not have tons of paperwork - for example, my policies are few in number but cover all the key necessary areas - I have just 12. They have served me well for many years with just minor tweaks here and there. I had been concerned when seeing other minders with many more - however, my 12 were quite good enough to fully satisfy my inspector recently. My inspector was actually sceptical of having too many and cited one particular policy which a number of minders seem to have adopted from a local child-minding association as "quite frankly, a step too far".

It wasn't a case of this particular inspector not being keen on too much paperwork - it has been the same story with my two previous inspections when one inspector used the phrase "less is best" with regard to the volume of paperwork she is being presented with at some minders houses.

So a parent needs to take lots of things into account before hopefully making the right decision for their child because in most cases, the child is not in a position to give any feedback until they are older.