Can someone enlighten me about nannies from Romania?

[MrsFogi]

I'm currently looking for a nanny and am getting some good applicants from Romania but I'm a bit confused about their right to work in the UK. For the most part they seem to wish on a self-employed basis. Can anyone tell me if this works/is legal etc?

It's not legal MrsFogi. There are some old threads on this. The Romanian candidates want to be self-employed because as a Romanian that is the only way you can legally work in the UK but the problem is a nanny is an employee, because you as the employer set the hours, the place of work, wouldn't accept a substitute, the nanny uses your equipment, etc. etc.

UK Border Agency: Romanian National
"if an individual changes jobs, their new employer must apply for another letter of approval from us and the individual must apply for a new accession worker card."

I suspect it is getting that paperwork sorted out that they are trying to bypass.

Try calling UK Border Agency on 0114 207 4074 and ask about "A2 Bulgarian and Romanian work permits/accession worker cards". Could they get an accession worker card which lets them work as a nanny?

It's not the only way but it's the only way they can work if they have what use to be a yellow card allowing the to be self-employed. You need someone with a blue card (which clears them to work as anything they want) or a purple card (limited working options but the domestic employee category is what you're looking for - not transferrable from employer to employer).

As has been pointed out a nanny doesn't meet many of the criteria for self-employment and is therefore in most circumstances an employee.

The only time a Romanian can work in childcare without a permit is if they come over specifically as an au pair, working 5 hours a day with the specific intention of learning English.

If I were you I'd insist on seeing and checking their right to work. They may have the correct papers but want, for some other unfathomable reason, want to be self-employed. If you accept their self-employed status wrongly you will end up with a fine and back-payments, if you employ them wrongly both of you are in trouble - you fir nit checking their right to work and employing an illegal worker, them for being employed illegally.

The same is also true for Bulgarian nationals.

Sorry that should be it's not the only way a Romanian can legally work.

Sorry frakkit but the domestic employee category is not correct. This is misleading information.

An au pair comes under the au pair category and this is not the same as the domestic employee (in a private household) category.

A domestic employee in a private household requires what was (and I can't find any information to suggest it isn't) a purple card, which needs to be updated for each employer - second sentence of the above post. That is what would need to be obtained for a nanny. Distinct from an au pair.

To be perfectly clear:

yellow - self-employed
blue - anything, transferrable
purple - non-transferrable

www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/bulgariaromania/ Employingabulgarianroman0408

I know we disagree about au pairs my reading of that document is an au pair requires an H serial purple card but the employer does not need a work permit under section 1 (b).

A domestic worker in a private household is someone who has been living with their employers abroad before they come to the UK.

This is nothing at all to do with someone who wants to come to the UK as a domestic employee (as opposed to an au pair). They simply can't. I went through all this before Christmas when I was looking to employ someone who was too old to qualify to be an au pair.

But what if they're already in the UK, as is presumably the case for the applicants?

Then the OP is looking at transferring the employers name in the card which is theoretically possible. Hence considering someone who already has a purple card so they have already qualified for entry and employment. That's how phillipino workers often change employment within the UK. Admittedly not with a purple card but transfer is typically easier than entry. If, hypothetically, a purple card were obtained it would be possible. If you read my post carefully it's all heavily prefaced with 'ifs'.

The other 'get out' I forgot to mention is A2 nationals married to a British citizen.

But I stand by what I said at first - you need to see the card. Then you can look up the specifics.

If they are here in the UK and have a blue card then as you said in your first post they have the same rights as any other EU national here and can take up any employment.

If they are here as a student on a yellow card, they can work up to 20 hours per week in any part-time employment.

If they are here self-employed and on a yellow card then as you say, they can't work as an employee in any situation.

The purple card is for Romanians and Bulgarians who are subject to work authorisation. If they are in the UK and have one, it means they have either gained previous permission to work for an employer (who has obtained a work permit prior to them starting), or they have come under a category that doesn't require a work permit (such as an au pair placement).

If they are here on a purple card then any change in job (going to work for another person) will require them to make a completely fresh application for another accession worker card.

Presumably the OP wants a nanny and not an au pair. A nanny position is obviously not counted as an au pair placement, so would not qualify for permit free employment and the OP would need to obtain a work permit, which will almost certainly be turned down.

Thank you for all the responses. Yes, I want a nanny, not an AP. I have had one applicant with a blue card so I'll have a look at that - is there anything in particular I should be aware of when checking this?

A domestic employee in private household, already in the UK holding a purple card can apply for a transfer if employment without the employer needing a work permit (1c).

Changes of employment can be authorised. I've seen the form and the guidance notes so I know it can be done. It's a pain, you have to prove substantial links to the UK and evidence of why you want to continue working in that field / are qualified to do so but in theory it could be done. It's mostly designed for other section 1 workers (airport / minister of religion) but could, in theory, be used for section 1b and c. I never said it was easy, it is merely possible within the scope of the scheme.

If your applicant currently holds a purple card but has been continuously employed for more than 12 months since entry - so is already in the UK and working - they may be freed from the restrictions to work and able to apply for a blue card. Also if they entered the country in that category with a certain passport stamp before 2007 they can remain in that category but switch employer. Or if they're a graduate of a UK institution or have done a postgrad they may qualify for other exemptions...

It's impossible to list all the exceptions so easier to say as a general rule - for a FT nanny - blue card yes, yellow card no, purple card maybe. So ask them what they have an check it.

A blue card, however, is much easier. If they have it you can reasonably suppose they can work. The only thing is, as with any right to work document, to check the name and details carefully and don't be fobbed off with explanations like 'oh they can't spell my name' or 'it's my maiden name'. If there genuinely is a reason for a discrepancy they should be able to back it up.