2nd baby back to back like first was and fully engaged - HELP!!!

[honeymoonmum]

My DS1 was back to back and had a disastrous labour and emcs. Had made my mind up to try for VBAC and my midwife told me today this baby also back to back and whats more fully engaged (Im 39 weeks) She assures me it could turn but Im so worried - anyone got any success stories of previous OP baby turning once engaged/labour begins?

Dd was back to back the morning i went into labour and she Did turn during labour

She shot out after 2 pushes

Couldn't have been quicker

ds2 was back to back, he didn't turn, and it was the best of my 3 labours by far!

DD was back to back with me and turned during labour. Copied the below info from the homebirth website which gives some helpful info www.homebirth.org.uk/ofp.htm

It also has stories about posterior births - they are not necessarily more difficult (these are stories of homebirths or ones where people transferred in)

If your baby is posterior when you are in labour:
Remember, most posterior babies will turn during labour (87% according to Gardberg study - see refs), but even if yours doesn't, a baby can still be born vaginally in the posterior position - "face to pubes" - and this can happen at a homebirth. Sometimes a posterior labour can make things just too tough, but it can work out.

You may try your hardest to get your baby into a good position, but he may be determined to stay the way he is - if so, there are things you can do in labour to help a posterior baby to be born.

The majority of babies who experience a posterior labour, actually start labour in an ideal position, and then turn posterior while you are in labour. Gardberg et al found that 68% of posterior babies took this route. This seems very unfair - but if it happens, these tips should still help.

These movements can help the baby wriggle through your pelvis, past the ischial spines inside it, by altering the level of your hips. They are also helpful if the baby is anterior but has a presentation problem, eg his head is tipped to one side (asynclitic).

In early labour, walk up stairs - sideways if you need to.
Rock from side to side
March or 'tread' on the spot
Step on and off a small stool
Climb in and out of a birth pool [3]
The positions listed below may also help.
For the second stage:

Use kneeling or all-fours positions. Kneeling on one knee can help.
Supported squatting in second stage, but the mother must be lifted quite high up; her bottom should be at least 45cm (18 inches) off the floor.
Birth stool seats should be at least 45cm (18 inches) from the floor.
Avoid lying on your back, semi-reclining, sitting or semi-sitting. These positions all reduce the available space for the baby to turn. Lying on the side is OK.

Thanks all feel a bit better still have an aching back thou!

Both my babies turned back to back during labour.

DD1 was a hideous 27 hour long induced labour and eventually was turned with vontouse and pulled out with forceps.

DD2 however was completely different. Again back to back but only 6 hours total from waters breaking, fully dilated in 2 hours with no pain relief. Again needed vontouse but with 2 pulls she was out... "stargazing" as the MW said.

It doesnt necessarily need to be a bad experience

Hi both of mine were back to back & both turned during labour - I had no tears or stitches with either!

Forgot to add - when the babys head was crowning I could feel it rotating at the same time - really strange feeling DP was horrified amazed!

I've just had my mw appt today at 39+4wks and found out my second is back-to-back and I'm very anxious about it after what happened the first time. Being in pain before actual labour has begun was so frightening and I'm already dreading it again.

I did tear (3rd degree) with my first. Awful experience

can anyone reassure me that subsequent back-to-back births aren't as bad?

lovechoc, get on spinning babies for advice on how to get your baby to turn round. Stuff to do whilst pregnant here and during labour here and here.

It's a fab site with loads of info but is huge. It's also quite hard to navigate, hence the separate links above. WELL worth trawling through though, I've been obsessing researching on there for a couple of weeks as DS1 was also back to back and I ended up being in labour for 76 hours . My midwife has assured me that even if this next baby is back to back it won't be as hard. Plus I now have a load of tricks up my sleeve which I didn't know about last time.

It's just nice to know you can do something about it. And the author of the site makes the point that posterior presentation doesn't necessarily make for a difficult birth, especially if you or your midwife know how to help it along.

You'll be fine. Good luck

thank you for the links hairymelons - had a look at the website earlier before posting on here and it was very confusing on how to do the practical stuff to help get the baby turning. You have helped so thanks

Here's hoping this next one turns because my first didn't - he definately came out 'sunny side up'.

Wow - 76hrs that's a LONG labour - did you get extreme back pain? I had it even before labour properly began and I still remember it to this day - so painful.

Glad it's not just me that finds it confusing- it's taken me weeks to find my way around it!

And yes, fuck me it was hard work. I can remember the pain too. Once my waters went it felt like my back was being broken with a baseball bat during each contraction. And it took nearly 3 hours to push him out

I never say things like that so as not to scare people plus I do think, musn't grumble because I didn't tear/ have an assisted delivery in the end. It does feel quite good to say it though

DS didn't turn either, head came out sideways!

I'm actually really looking forward to having this baby. The hypnobirthing really helped me last time and I feel even more prepared now- it can't possibly be as tough again.

Have you made a plan yet for what you'll do if the next one is back to back? I can't decide if I'll stay at home and tough it out or go to hospital and get an epidural.

I'm going to hospital for DS2's birth - no way could I imagine coping without the options of something stronger than G&A! I managed on G&A for most of it but in the last 30 mins before DS1 was born I had pethidine injection but it did nothing to help with the pain when I think back - it was just pure agony.

I was on my hands and knees last night trying to help this one move - checked my notes and DS2 is 'ROL', not quite back to back yet but heading that way if I don't try and help him move around.

Yes, you are very lucky to have not had a tear with your first birth - it's not nice at all. I also think this traumatic experience was as bad as the birth itself, if not worse. Fingers crossed this time I will not tear again! Had thought of an ELCS but tbh I would have a longer recovery time which is no good, would need lots of family support for longer and I didn't want to go down that route unless it was absolutely necessary so opted for vaginal delivery if poss again.

oh yes and I might opt for an epidural this time round! I didn't have time for one last time, was told to just push and had to get on with it. I had coped with the G&A for hours but near the pushing stage I could have done with one.

I was quite scared of tearing with DS1 so did perineal massage religiously for a few weeks before. Maybe it made a difference. Have you tried it?

I didn't want an epidural until right at the end, was also told it was too late! I'm glad I didn't get one last time in a way becuase I would have just gone to sleep and they would have had to extract DS somehow! So it was more pain but less recovery time afterwards.

Sorry you had such a traumatic time. Have you been through your birth notes? I found it really helpful to know exactly what happened and why. It's also made me determined that if I want to be on my hands and knees this time, I will be. I was forced to lie on my back last time which was awful, especially with the back pain.

why did they make you lie on your back? I remember going in the day before having DS and was asked why I was lying on my back, it's not good for the baby etc. No one had even told me that you're not supposed to lie on your back! I think the MW was more or less saying because he was back to back anyway that I was not helping my situation. First timer and all that...

I've not tried perineal massage yet, not sure I have the energy to do all that kind of stuff now - due on Sunday. I've explained I don't want a sweep this time (with DS1 I was too anxious and so it never happened, went into labour two days later spontaneously though) and so I've got a post-dates appt on 19th - they hopefully won't let me go much longer than 25th at the latest.
When are you due?

I agree re: epidural. It was more painful without but did mean quicker recovery time all round. I'm not looking to blame anyone for what happened to me tbh, I just think I had a really crappy time of it - I'm just not one of those women that is going to sail through childbirth each time without a drama it seems. Some women manage brilliantly and others less so. I'm trying to be optimistic about this birth but it's difficult when I already know the chances of things going pear-shaped are more than likely esp with 'back to back' being mentioned yesterday at the appt. The midwife put 'anxious ++' on my notes

Had a hard 37 hour labour that ended in forceps with ds who was back to back, and was very worried when I learned dd was the same and like you engaged.

She never turned but the labour was only 5 hours, I did push for very nearly 2 hours though, I and will not kid you, it was hard, but when she appeared it turned out she was face presentation too, which obviously had not helped.

Just so you know that it's do-able even if baby doesn't turn.

Best of luck

Wherethewildthingswere sounds like you had a nightmare first time round but easier the second time. You are giving me a little hope!lol

Thanks - hope things do turn out okay this time round.

They made me lie on my back because they were a pair of dicks. Can't think of a single other explanation. I said no because it was agony being on my back and it was easier pushing on all fours; the midwife who'd been with me at home said 'No, she doesn't want to'; DH and my Dsis said I was happier where I was but they knew better apparently and flipped me over . When I think about it now, it think it was cruel. I did tell the MW to fuck off when she wanted to give me an episiotomy though

I'm not due til mid october so plenty of time to stew!

Re.the perineal massage- fair enough if you can't face it, I did find it a bit grim. I would mention on your birth plan that you're anxious about tearing though and that you want the midwives to help you avoid it. I know they do anyway, but I still put it on mine to remind them to reassure me about it IYSWIM.

'I'm just not one of those women that is going to sail through childbirth each time without a drama it seems. Some women manage brilliantly and others less so.'

I think it's part luck, part preparation, not something you're doing wrong. Even the preparation bit is down to luck really; how helpful your midwife is; what information you come across through friends/ websites etc.

Have you considered labouring in water? I had about 50 baths last time so am hoping to give the pool a go. Apparently it reduces the likelihood of tearing as well as making the pain easier to deal with.

We did both get a raw deal last time but it's very unlikely to be a repeat of that again. First births are always hard, doubly so when there's a malpresentation. In fact, my SIL had her 2nd baby on monday- 1st one was back to back, 48 hour labour, awful time. This baby was still back to back the day before but turned during labour- she arrived at hospital at 12.30pm, delivered at 1.20pm! That has given me hope.

Don't know if you like relaxation CDs but I'm listening to mine again now and am feeling brainwashed much more relaxed already .

It's good to have anxious ++ on your notes anyway, means they'll be extra nice to you!

I've been listening to a natal hypnotherapy birth prep CD for several weeks now, mainly twice a week but sometimes only once depending on what's been going on each week.

That gives out plenty hope that your SIL wasn't in hospital long before giving birth, very short labour!

I laboured in the bath and then the birthing pool last time but it slowed my contractions right down so I had to get out unfortunately.Had it all planned I wanted a water birth but it was not to be...this time I'm going with the flow and said anything goes, I will see how it turns out on the day/night. Much easier to cope if you don't have any great expectations I think.

Ah, Oct! You have loads of time to prepare yourself - have a friend due in Oct too.

I'm sorry you had such a crap time last time though, can't believe they made you lie on your back - that's the worst possible position to lie in when baby is back-to-back. I remember trying it during labour and i just couldn't, was too too painful!

I have faith you'll have a much better experience in October - you are right, with all the right info at your fingertips you know you can prepare yourself better this time.

DS1 was back to back and hideous labour ending in EMCS. When went in 4cm with DS3 MW said he was B2B (he wasn't)- I started freaking out - more senior MW came in though and said even if he was I'd have much more room in me for him to turn in labour as he wasn't my first so I was more stretched