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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

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Original poster

Would it be unreasonable to request no students during labour at teaching hospital?

69 replies

mazzystartled · 19/04/2010 14:43

DC3 is due imminently. To my surprise I am being totally supported and encouraged to have a VBA2C, on a midwife-led unit.

One of the things that I think will help me is if I can have the greatest degree of privacy possible, so I was thinking about requesting not to have students attending, but am I being unreasonable?

I know that if intervention is required or I am transferred to the obs-led part there will inevitably be more people around, and I definitely not want any student doctors forming an audience. But how about student midwives?

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Rolf · 20/04/2010 20:11

Mazzy how exciting . Good luck!

If you feel that way then there's no reason at all why you should feel you should let a student MW be with you. I booked a doula when I had DD2, and one reason was so that she could do all that sort of declining for me. They will be fine about it.

Shaz10 · 20/04/2010 20:27

Really LittleSilver? It didn't bother me! However I have no shame and having a baby did little to temper that

EmmaKateWH · 20/04/2010 20:45

Titty - the average medical (and law) student these days is a female who went to a comprehensive school.

scottishmummy · 20/04/2010 21:11

abbie you misrepresent the student-patient relationship.the patient has no compulsion or responsibility whatsoever to participate in providing learning opportunities for medical students.in fact the onus is upon the qualified staff to enquire if pt will consent to student present,allay any anxieties and respect decision even if that includes a refusal.pts should not be reduced to a set of observable symptoms,a learning experience.yes pts receive treatment in teaching hospitals but central tenet is the respect and and adherence to pts wishes.students get a range of clinical placements and actually most pts do consent to student participation -as this thread attests

addie81 · 21/04/2010 17:27

I just think if you expect to benefit from the expertise of trained medical staff, you also ought to be willing to participate in the training of their junior colleagues. I don't think there is anything else I can add to that so I am bowing out of this thread now.

tembo · 21/04/2010 18:59

Help!!!
Today i went for my 24 week appointment. I have seen a different midwife each time so have been unable to form a relationship with any.
Today i mentioned that it was important to me that my birth was as private as poss and i wished for no students or people observing to be present.
My midwife stated this was not a option, it is a teaching hospital and there would be students present... Also saying 2how on earth will people learn and who will do the job when im retired" i understand her point but feel i was spoke to like a naughty school girl.
I am now so upset have totally lost faith and have no idea what my rights reguarding privacy are and am unsure where to turn.
Can anyone help or advise? (sorry for the long rant!)

Librashavinganotherbiscuit · 21/04/2010 19:04

Your MW is talking bollocks tembo, you should ALWAYS be ASKED if you mind students observing, just say no.

piscesmoon · 21/04/2010 19:09

Although I agree with the MW tembo-you have the right to refuse-don't be browbeaten.

LittleSilver · 21/04/2010 19:47

Tembo, your midwife is talking utter rot and I would report her to the Supervisor of Midwives tbh. You are under no compulsion to have students whatsoever, don't worry.

manchestermummy · 21/04/2010 19:57

I had a whole group of medical students knock on the door of the delivery room I was in (they spoke to the mw first!) whilst half way through a two-hour pushing session. I said no, so off they went.

Normally, I'd do anything to help someone with their studies, but it really, really wasn't the right time...

specialmagiclady · 21/04/2010 20:01

I said yes to student midwives, no to doctors. In the end,I do recall looking over my knees at a row of about 5 or 6 people. I'm sure that some were told to "come on in and have a look at this" or some such.

Definitely make sure someone experienced does your stitches! That's your precious ladypart they're messing with....

hazeyjane · 21/04/2010 20:01

"We hope you will agree to be seen by these students.You have the right to refuse to take part in teaching work if you wish. Your treatment will not be affected in any way."

This is from The Chelsea and Westminster Hospital (a teaching hospital) guidelines. I believe the same applies to all hospitals.

I had an unusual molar pregnancy in 2003, and so have had students present during my subsequent pregnancies, at nearly every scan, internal, during labour and talking to me after the birth. I have never minded, especially because it is important that medical professionals can get experience of something unusual, but I have always been asked if it is ok.

If it makes you uncomfortable, then you have every right to refuse - there should be plenty of people that will say yes to students, and it is your welfare that is paramount.

Tittybangbang, I think your comment
"Can't imagine anything worse than having some 22 year old public schoolboy student doctor in the room with me while I shit myself and cry."
is unnecessary, doctors are from all backgrounds and both genders(!), and all need experience. I remember having an internal scan when I was pg with dd1, I was terrified, given my previous history, we had a student (young, male) observing the scan, afterwards he thanked us for letting him observe something that was obviously very private and moving, he was lovely.

barkfox · 21/04/2010 20:07

tembo, here is a link to NHS Patients' Rights from the CAB.

www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/health/nhs_patients_rights.htm#Consent

Under 'Consent', then 'Experiments, Medical Research and Teaching' if you scroll down, it says this: -

"You have the right to refuse to participate in teaching without your treatment being affected. If you do not want to be involved in teaching, it is advisable to inform the hospital in advance."

I would report your MW for 2 reasons. Firstly, she is simply wrong in what she has told you, and someone needs to correct her so she can do her job properly - secondly, she is pressuring you to accept a situation she doesn't understand properly, and that's just not acceptable behaviour from a HCP.

coppertop · 21/04/2010 20:42

I think that having students present is only a positive experience when it's what the patient actually wants and has consented to.

I had student MWs present for 2 births and they were lovely. If ds1 had been a girl I would even have considered naming him/her after the student MW who spent so long with me as she was so fantastic.

During my third one, a student doctor wandered in without even bothering to say who they were, never mind asking for consent. The MW asked them what they thought they were doing in my room and then sent them straight back out. It felt intrusive and invasive tbh and I wouldn't have felt at all comfortable to have had them there.

tembo · 21/04/2010 23:23

THANKYOU SO MUCH, THATS A GREAT HELP

EmmaKateWH · 22/04/2010 10:48

I agree with your comment about tittybang, hazyjane - most doctors are not public schoolboys, and even if they are - making offensive generalised remarks about them is just ignorant!

Tootingbec · 22/04/2010 21:23

You have prob got the drift now but if you want privacy then don't feel bad about asking for it.

I had 2 student doctors (they looked about 15 mind!) observing my assisted delivery but quite frankly I was so knackered and off my head on drugs at that point I really couldn't have given a toss who was there. I think my husband was a bit put out by the number of people gawping at my fanny by the end, but as the daughter of a midwife, I was happy to help people get the experience they needed.....But nothing wrong with wanting to be left alone either....

tablefor3 · 23/04/2010 14:20

Someone up thread said that doctors would not regard a birth as "viewing platform at a zoo".

well, I hate to say it, but doctor friends of mine have said that the way their training went meant that they had to see x types of various different births, twins, back to back etc etc. So, if the rumour went round that Room 5 was having [whatever type student needed for their checklist], they would go scooting off in order to "do one of X" for their list. They didn't like the system, and where possible tried to be part of a whole labour, but getting close to the end of a rotation meant having to complete those lists...

That said, I would consent to 1 student (either dr or mw) for a lengthy period of the labour - no popping in or out!

stressheaderic · 23/04/2010 16:55

It was a student midwife who delivered my DD1 and she was fantastic. She did ask if it was ok before she began any obs etc and I was fine with it. I sometimes think that trainees are a bit more 'careful', they want to 'do it right' etc and this was indeed the case, the supervising midwife was a little more slapdash and routine about things.

Having been a trainee myself (teaching), I always appreciate that everyone has to learn, and start somewhere, and we were all beginners in our chosen profession once.

Probably why I'm always quite patient behind learner drivers too!

Having said that, DD got a bit stuck and almost needed a ventouse delivery - had the doctor arrived with a student in tow, I think I may have objected to that - 2 midwifes, 2 doctors and DP all staring down the business end might have been a bit much.

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