Can anyone help me organise my thoughts about 'the birth' and afterwards???

[mosschops30]

PLEAAASSSEEEEE!!!!

I have so much going round in my head, I dont know where to start or what to do first, but feeling like i need to deal with things as not dealing with them is not helping me get over this.
Here are whats going on in my head and I cant work out which is nonsense, which needs to be done, which doesnt, and what order I should be doing them in.

• debriefing with senior midwives
• consultant appointment (this is on 18th Jan)
• complaint about midwife
• speak to manager about probably not returning to my previous position
• get redeployment policy from employer ( have already done this).
• speak to my union (have done this too and they advised me to speak to occ health department and get redeployment policy)
• speak to occ health (have done this, they need a referral from manager)
• am seeing doctor on 25th jan
• possible referral for proper cou selling
• find out about compensation
• find out whether you can actually sue your own employer for medical negligence and trauma without losing your job?

There, think thats it. I cannot order it into any shape or form at the moment am so jumbled up

oh dear, so sorry you are in this state! Wish I could be more help but I don't know what happened to you (although it sounds bad)

Re your last point - the answer is pretty much "no" - even if you win, your life there won't be worth it. If you lose, doubly so. If you choose to sue, work on the principle that you won't be going back there.

If you want a counselling referral, it could take weeks to see someone unless you pay for it.

Sorry not to be much help - hope others come along with more useful advice!

Hi there, I have read some of your recent posts, so kinda know a bit about what has been going on.

Firstly, I think a big hug is needed from someone in RL, and a few deep breaths (not meaning to be patronising in any way)

When are you due to return to work? I am guessing you have a while off on maternity leave first as your LO is only small...

Occ health and GP will support you or sign you off sick if you feel you cannot return to work in that area following your experience, so do not worry about that yet.

About compensation etc - the NHS does not have insurance for this, so any money you got would be directly taking from other patients. I considered this a while back, but could not do it. Money would not make things any better anyway.

I would say first priority is get counselling arranged asap via GP, and get the debriefing (take a notebook as I forgot so much). Everything else will fall into place - things will not happen quickly, but try to not let this overshadow the early weeks with LO and affect your recovery.

Having things written down is great, as will help you think clearer/ recall easier.

thanks for the replies

thumbwitch I work for a large NHS trust, and they pay out to others, so is it wrong that I should be able to have this option. Im not being argumentative, just that I dont work for a small firm. But yes I can see your point, DH thinks that if I did decide to go down that road (which I am unsure of anyway, i generally dont agree with the compensation culture) I could kiss goodbye to the job.
I have Bupa so the counselling thing is covered if I need it.

stinkypinky yes I agree about taking money away from the NHS and patient care which disturbs me somewhat. But I also hope that what has happened to me never happens to anyone else. I would like someone to take responsibility but Im not sure if thats possible or if its just 'one of those things'!
Maybe I could overcome this by having a meeting with the head of midwifery and getting out all my grievances that way and hopefully get them to make some changes with regards to care etc.

I am not due back in work til June, I dont really want to have lots of sick time. I do want to return to a nursing role, just not sure that one in surgery, alongside colleagues who have seen my insides is the best option for me anymore. I think a while out of this area is needed for me to recover.

I have written down everything I remember from the 5-6 weeks I have been in and out of hospital. Its hard to write bits of it, and the day I was rushed back in I cannot write about at all yet so Ive just left it blank. Some it makes me cry (some peoples kindness) aand other bits have made me very angry. Im finding it hard which is why Im not sure when the right time would be for the de briefing

I am also a nurse.

Thankfully June is some time off, so employment stuff can get sorted.

You can be debriefed more than once... I would say do asap, and repeat as needed.

I am sure your colleagues would have taken extra special care of you as you are one of their own... but fully understand why the area you work in is no longer so appealing.

Would you think about redeployment or applying for something else myself?? The thing about redeployment is that if they cant find me anything else suitable in 3 months then they can terminate my employment completely!

I never thought about repeating the debriefing, what a good idea.

My colleages were great and very professional, but I cannot even watch an op on tv anymore never mind reassure patients and get them into theatre myself. I cant even face going into the area to speak to my boss. I think I will have to meet him in the canteen or something.

When do you think I should talk to him?

also dh doesnt think I should complain about one midwife. He thinks i should just 'forget it and get over it'! Should I? Am I just being nasty or looking for someone to take something out on? I dont know! She was very unprofessional and IMHO in the wrong profession or at least could do with a brush up on her interpersonal skills

Nothing to stop you doing both. Or look at a secondment?

I am unsure about them terminating your employment. I have a pal going through redeployment at present, and she has never mentioned this, PLUS with your specific circumstances, you would have full support from Occ Health.

They could not realistically start the clock until June, so that would give you 9 months to find another job from now.

Your Boss should be prepared to see you anywhere... Your home, cafe in town etc. Talk to him asap... at present you can get away with saying pretty much anything... blame the hormones. A Bosses job is to support staff.

I am inclined to agree with your DH about not putting everything onto one MW, but in debriefing mention her attitude as one of a list of issues... if they ask for names specifically, then say, but only if asked.

Take time to think (when ready) about how much your current specialist role means to you. You may just find, in time, that this is the best place for you to work, considering your experience.

Oh yes, and 'forgetting it' is the sure-fire way of ensuring you never get over it. DH will mean well, and will have his own trauma to deal with.

I've seen some of your threads and it sounds like you've had a horrendous time of it.

FWIW I would say get some counselling (possibly also for your DH - I guess his reaction may be because he fears any legal action would drag the emotional trauma on for longer?) and have the debriefings first before speaking to your manager. June is a long way off, and you may feel differently then. There's an employment board on MN and there's some very helpful HR ladies who have advised me in the past, might be worth posting the employment-related bits of your query there?

A meeting with the midwives supervisor to chat things through sounds like a good idea. You could raise your concerns about that particular midwife there - the supervsor is there to make sure all women get the births they want, and I'm sure she'd want to know if one of her team is letting the side down!

It's also worth considering the hospital's own complaint procedure before heading for litigation (it's possible they may drop themselves further in it, which may help with any subsequent legal case!).

In terms of compo, the NHS has a specific litigation department which deals with these things so to have the best chance of success do ensure your case is well organised and take advice froma specialist lawyer (check either Chambers or the Legal500 guides online for recommendations in your area). The fact you've written so much down while its fresh in your memory will definitely help you with this side of things. Also it's worth thinking about whether you want the trust/individuals involved to be disciplined and held to account for what happened to you - or whether you'd ever settle to just take some compensation for your troubles.

Whatever happens, I do hope you are able to get some answers and some peace. Good luck to you and your family.

Hugs Mosschops I've been following your drama and firstly hugs.

I think writing it down is very good and positive, would counselling normally be done at your hospital? If so I would request assistance from Occuapational Health to get the request expededed your a staff member who has suffered excessive trauma.

I think counselling can help with clarity and give you time to come to terms with all that has happened. Along with the debrief, personally I would mention the MW in question that was unprofessional, it might be others don't suffer from her attitude or that she treats staff differently which is unjustifable!

When you've had the de-brief (however many it takes be 1 or 10) then I would look at the hospitals complaints procedure, they can't discriminate against you if you make a complaint or make things difficult!

To forget about it I'm sorry I don't think that will work or it certainly wouldn't for me it would be playing on my mind subconciously etc.... I think dealing with it and doing whatever you need to do to get closure will help you move on. You might find that multiple de-briefs and maybe an apology/explanation makes you decide not to complain or to only take the complaint so far. You have to think of it as your the customer in this situation and the trust is the big company.......in different circumstances would ybe satisfied with the way you've been treated/are treated de-brief's etc...

When you speak to the head of MW's and the consultant I would mention to them that due to what has happened your feel unable to return to a theatre based role (I've assumed this is what your doing) or a surgery based ward, and see if they can write to recommend in your circumstances that you should be re-deployed within the trust, especially if your "considering" the complaint.

Your boss should be able to support you and ensure that the process is followed and be able to recommend that you are re-deployed be it short or long term. For my staff I would go to them at home or meet them somewhere off site if they requested especially if it was after a tramautic experience (I don't work in medical profession!). I think it is good practice to do this.

I'm sure with the documented evidence of what has happened and your notes from your meetings/de-briefs you're have more than enough evidence to sway that your employer should make exceptions to accomodate you on your return to work, I'm sure you would probably have a case for constructive dismissal if you had raised a complaint and then were forced back to the same role after what had happened.

Your mental health is the most important thing for the moment for your sanity and your families! Take care whatever you decide to do xxxx

thanks mosschops for clarifying that bit - I sort of thought you might have worked in the NHS!

re. the complaint about the MW - I would do it and limit it to her unprofessionalism; because if you don't, how will she ever learn that her behavious was crap - a complaint should force someone to do something about it (although I admit I do wonder whether the hospital admin just pay lip-service to the complainant when they say the person in qu has been sent for re-training).

I still go with the "don't sue if you want to keep your job there" - I worked in the NHS too for years and I made myself fully unpopular in my area because of a sexual harassment issue with a bloke I worked with (hardly a colleague, I wouldn't give him that much credit ) and it effectively ruined any chance of advancement, plus making my day to day life there somewhat uncomfortable. I chose to leave and go to another hospital.

I'm not sure about the legalities here - can you get compensation for your horrendous experience without suing for medical negligence/malpractice? Thing is, someone is going to have to be named in the suit and that someone isn't going to be happy to have you around afterwards, I would think.

Glad you have had lots more replies now and well done for writing it all down (as much as you can manage). As a nurse, you might consider the next suggestion a bit off the wall, but you could try something called EFT - emotional freedom technique - which is supposed to be very good for clearing the effects of trauma.

I agree that your DH saying "forget it" is not that helpful - you need to work through it and deal with it, not bury it in your subconscious. You need time to get through the shock and trauma - explain to him about PTSD if nothing else works on him!

Hi Mosschops! I worked for the NHS for 10 years in the 90s and then retrained to become a lawyer (although not in clinical negligence). It sounds like you had a really hideous time of it, but, although I've read your threads only briefly and obviously don't know all the facts, do you really think the problems you had post op were due to negligence?? It sounds more like the post op complications were sheer bad luck from what you have said, i.e. they could have happened to anyone, unfortunately it was you. I once worked with a registrar who said it was sods law that if any issues arise out of medical treatment, its always to someone who works in that profession.

I ask this because I think you should ensure that there is a clear case of negligence rather than sheer bad luck before suing. The legal process will take several years, and will inevitably affect relations with your employer and possibly future potential other NHS employers if they find out about it. This sort of long ongoing thing will be really quite stressful and affect your ability to get over the birth. Don't rush into doing this without thinking it through carefully. You have up to 3 years to commence any action.

Probably the best thing for you right now is to move on from the birth itself (with counselling if that helps) and concentrate on the fact that you have a healthy baby, your body will hopefully fully heal in time as will your mind. Your baby needs you.

thank you all for great suggestions, this thread is really helping

Can I just clear up that dh said I should 'just forget' about that particular midwife, not the whole experience. He is well aware of how traumatised I am and is supporting me greatly in my need to change jobs and the debriefing.

I think that yes, medical negligence is not relevant in this case. So unless something else comes to light then it would just be the suffering from the trauma of it all.

I would also like to say that i was not operated on in the area I work (i was on delivery suite), and that the colleagues of mine who were present for both the section and the following op were professional in every way and I dont have any problem with them in that way, just hard knowing what your colleagues have seen of you really (bits you never want them to see, indeed, bits YOU never want to see).
I would not be working with any of the surgeons, scrub staff or midwives, because obs and gynae is the only thing we dont cover in my main theatres department.

I am so grateful for these posts, am going to arrange a de-brief in the next few weeks and rather than making an official complaint about that one midwife I will raise the issues in the de-brief.

There have also been 2 suitable jobs which have come up this week and I am going to make some enquiries about those and see where I go, although it might be a bit early if I dont want to start until June.

oh and bigpreggybelly its so true that if its going to happen it will happen to a medical professional.
Ive heard of so many stories lately that support this. One of a midwife who ended up in critical care and I worked with a nurse who ended up in critical care post-natally