Forceps and / or ventouse - why are they so bad?

[confuseddoiordonti]

Okay, bit naive here I know, but I figured if that if I never ask I'd also never know.

So, can you tell me what's so horrific (as I have gleaned from various threads) about both ventouse and forceps deliveries? And, is the likelihood of having one very high?

Yours nervously, Cx

I have had two births, currently 30wks pregnant with my third. With bth my births, the first one my daughter swallowed meconium so there was a rush to get her out, so had an episiotomy and a ventouse.

"nd baby, my son, well he had a very wide head and because the midwife didnt realise his hand was stuck up by his head and made me push for over 3 hrs, I was so exhausted as a result that again they gave me an episiotomy and a ventouse.

I didnt find them too bad, probably because the actually pain I was in before that, knowing I was to have a ventouse meant that it was going to be over soon so cant really remember it being painful having the ventouse put in cos I was in so much pain anyway.

The stitches healed quite quick both times too.

I am trying to get an elective section this time though cos again it looks likely that I will have a complicated birth and need a ventouse and an episiotomy, and the last birth also caused a hernia and I also have found I have a heart murmur so I think the best option this time for me is a section.

But for me, the two ventouse births I had, it wasnt the ventouse bit that made it an awful birth, it was the bits leading up to that.

Hi,

I had a ventouse delivery after my dd was taking her time!

I had an epidural and did'nt feel anything, also have a episotomy, which was'nt that bad afterwards, it was'nt great either but to be honest you get to a point where you don't care what happens anymore you just want the baby OUT!!!!!!

You will be fine, don't worry and remembered there are lots of drugs etc you can have!!!! xxx

DS was delivered with ventouse assistance, it was fne.

Once we knew things were slow, slow, slow, and I had been pushing for ages, the mws discussed it with me. We agreed to transfer to hospital, then that obstetric registrar agreed that we could try with a drip to accelarate contractions for a bit: drip and monitoring meant I had to lie down, so I requested an epidurlal, which I got, and it was working by the time DS was delivered with ventouse.

I did have stitches, but even that wasn't actually as bad as the thought of stitches had been in advance, and they healed up fine, I wasn't in that much discomfort, really.

I think the most important thing is that you know what is heppening and understand why any intervention is necessary at any given ppint.

I found ventouse very traumatic and painful - the doctor cut an episiotomy twice which he later sewed up badly (and needed repair some months later), bollocked me out for 'not trying hard enough' even while the midwife pointed out that my contractions had died off on the monitor, and then the actual yanking out of the baby felt terrible. The closest I can describe it is to say that it felt as if my whole pelvis had been pulled out. The baby screamed his poor head off, I screamed my head off, it was lovely. And then I started to haemorrhage - which I gather is a more likely complication with instrumental deliveries - and got subjected to a rather violent bimanual massage, which is the closest to assault I ever hope to experience. And while I screamed, the doctor lectured me on how I would get an infection and I needed to relax. (I got an infection - also more common with instrumental deliveries.)

So yes, ventouse was hell, and I think it's okay to say that even with the disclaimer that I am, of course, grateful to have a healthy baby. I had a caesarean with the second which was also not at all fun, but at least this time I had pain relief for the slicing-and-dicing-and-yanking-out bits!

I'm sorry, I'm going to be graphic here, so if you don't want to read, then please skip to the next post....

I've had both and if I had to do it again I wouldn't - I would INSIST on a c-section.
The damage that forceps / ventouse can cause on both you and baby are horrific.
Forceps damage your vaginal wall and pelvic floor muscles and your bladder. They are barbaric instruments that should not be used!

Ventouse does the same thing but worse for the baby as it pulls and damages all the nerve endings in their head / neck and jaw (same with forceps)

If you do end up having either of these - make sure you go and see an EXCELLENT cranial osteopath who knows what they are doing and specialises in instrumental deliveries!

Oh blimey.
How come it's the negative stories which leap out at you! I have, against my better judgement, been looking at various styles of birth on the internet and am aghast at how brutal they can be / are! I realise this sounds very naive, but I suppose seeing it in front of me jolted me into realising what it could be like cutting you with scissors and ramming metal salad tongues inside you!

I am now thinking that ignorance is most certainly bliss!

Thank you for sharing (I think )

Just to redress the balance seeing as you always get the negative stories:
I started off with a very average pregnancy, waters broke, relaxed in MLU water pool etc, but not much happened over the next 12 hours and I had to have an epidural as my pelvis pain got much much worse (very uncommon).

Many hours later, still nothing had happened. More hours and meconium appears. Which is a sign for 'need to get at this baby soon'. So we do some pushing and go through all the paperwork for a c-section in case, but they say might as well try a ventouse, but don't get my hopes up about not having a section.

So we go into theatre to try the ventouse. The bed is put at a 45 degree angle and 3 big blokes have the job of ensuring I don't fall off. I get told to push on the count of 3. I do. Everyone goes 'my god, there's the head!' Baby goes 'ge-boing'. I throw up over big blokes. I get big jab in my thigh. Someone says "you know you said in your birth plan if you needed an episiotomy, you wanted an expert? Well, if I needed one, this is the lady I'd want doing it!"

Cut to next day and I have huge bruise on my thigh, don't really feel much else. Over the next couple days I felt a bit sore and it finally dawned on me this was because I'd given birth... total recovery over the next couple months.

Baby had large mark on his head that faded over a week or two.

Basically if you're in a situation where people are suggesting a ventouse or forceps, find out if you can wait a bit or if it's really recommended to get the baby out ASAP, and then ask for any cut and stitches to be done by someone who's good at it!

dd1 was delivered using mini ventouse- I was just grateful they were getting her out! didn't notice any additional pain, there was no tearing etc
ended up with ventouse as dd1's heart rate was dropping between contractions (she was taking a long time to come out and i was knackered too)

But confused, please don't worry about this in advance-you don't know what's going to happen, and there's no point scaring yourself! you will deal with it when it happens I promise you

I have to add another positive story... I had DD with ventouse following very long labour and she was back to back, had not come out after 1 hr of pushing. Doctor came in, said "I can have this baby out in 5 mins". I pushed, the doctor pulled and out she came. Had an episiotomy which healed fine. Baby's head had a round scab that healed quickly. Only thing in hindsight is that we probably should have taken her to one of those cranial osteopath places, she did cry quite a lot in the beginning. But so do a lot of babies...

OMG this is a horrid thread - I bet you wished you hadn't asked...

If it's needed, it's needed (I was just glad of any help they offered!)

Now go and find some positive birth stories to stop you worrying!!

Just adding that I spoke to my friend today whos DS was born two days after DD (both due on same day) she had to be induced and her DS (who was 2 lbs heavier than my DD) was also back to back and she needed a ventouse in the end. She, like me, also pushed for 2 hours but her DS started to get distressed, so they got the dr and his ventouse and her DS popped out nicely. He is one of the most chilled babies ever, so the ventouse does not appear to have had any effect on him beyond delivering him safely. She has no bad feelings towards the assistance needed to get her baby out, nor any detrimental effects from the use of the ventouse.

Hope that helps!

dd1 wrigleys forceps (smaller I'm told i refused to look) ds1 ventouse. Both happy relaxed babies. With ds1 I just had gas and air. Both delivered by consultant who really knew what she was doing before situation becme a really really urgent emergency. I really believe that is key. 2nd degree tear both times healed well no long lasting effects. It doesn't have to be horrific. Quite hoping I will manage to push out a possible dc3 myself!

DS1 was born by ventouse (very long labour, back to back, meconium in waters, contractions stopped after epidural). He had a couple of grazes and a slightly pointy head for a few days but no lasting damage to him or me (I had epi with five stitches which was bloody sore but healed fine).

ghouls are loud i had a similar experience to you it was horrific and i have post traumatic stress.... no physical problems to me or baby, but i am very anxious and have ocd.
after the birth i told my sister i felt like i had been raped. my partner cannot understand this but like you said it is very rough and violates you, i was saying no and crying, it was a terrible experience but at least my baby and i are ok. i adore him.

I had forceps. Didn't feel anything much as had had epidural and they topped it up when they decided it would have to be forceps. Had episotomy but the stiching was done very well (by dr) and it didn't give me much pain even the next day and has healed cleanly. Wouldn't recomend the experience but it wasn't too bad and I sure I healed faster than I would have done if had gone to a c-section.

to dumbledoresgirl: the use of forceps may well have put you and your baby at a greater risk of death

At the risk of getting my head bitten off, I think, ghouls, that dumble was saying that forceps and ventouse isn't an evil contraption, but a life-saver in many cases - even though the use of them is horrible.

My 2pennies, confused, is that they are often used because the mother has been dosed up with painkillers/epidural and/or is stuck to a foetal heart monitor and can't move enough to labour effectively. Instrumental deliveries are much more common, for instance, with women who have epidurals, for that reason. Therefore, if it's possible for you to avoid an epidural, or pethedine, and if it's possible for you to move as your body tells you to while in labour, you are much more likely to not need instruments.

However, when needed they are horrible - but - a lifesaver certainly to the baby and sometimes to the mother, and they are an invaluable tool in modern medicine. For instance, in dumbledore's case, it's likely/possible that she would not have been able to deliver without the forceps no matter what had happened beforehand, even with a completely "natural" labour to that point.

So sometimes, you're just unlucky to need them, and lucky they're there to help. But you say that you think you maybe should not know - well knowing that an epidural is more likely to lead to instrumental delivery gives you the knowledge to make the decision not to have one, if you can cope without. And if not, well, that's fine too. Good luck, and I'm sure all will be fine :-)

I had a forceps delivery 12 weeks ago, and it was grim. DS has scars on his head from it (see profile pic - bloody great bruise on his forehead). I wasn't told why it was necessary, and afterwards, midwives in the postnatal ward told me I had it easy, only 65 hrs of labour, 2nd degree tear, and episiotomy, small haemhorrage. still a little pissed off by their 'oh grow up you wuss' attitude 5 hours after the birth, but hey! Although the ep healed beautifully, the tear still hasn't, and (ahem) bowel movements still require me to hover rather than sit as it's so bloody sore!

HOWEVER, it turns out that baby would not have been delivered naturally due to the angle he was at. I have a beautiful 15lb 12 week old, alive, healthy, breastfed entirely, and without forceps I might not have him. so although I felt a bit violated (not as bad as being raped though, which was far worse), and thought at one point that they would rip his head off with the forceps, I feel it wass worth it. will be requesting c-section next time though!

(oh and forceps can give some babies bad injuries and even cause palsies i think, but that's INCREDIBLY rare. mine was nastily cut and bruised, but established breast feeding easily. i may just be v lucky though)

I had a forceps delivery. Luckily I had already been given an epidural (long, induced labour). I had been pushing for 2hrs and DS's heart rate was dropping.

The only think I knew about forceps deliveries in advance was that I was likely to need an episiotomy, which was the very last thing I wanted. Yes, I was scared and think DH was lucky to have any fingers left I squeezed his hand so hard, but the main thing was that DS was out and OK.

I was taken to theatre for stitches and it took a while, so I can only assume it was quite a job to repair. However, I was lucky and healed quickly and tbh don't remember being in severe pain which couldn't be controlled by the painkillers I was given.

All OK now, but suspect I have a slightly weakened pelvic floor as a result.

I think it's best to go into your labour with a positive outlook and not to think too much about the possible negatives. Have your birth plan as your 'ideal', but be prepared to be flexible. You could well end up with everything going as planned, but if you are prepared to be flexible (e.g- with your pain relief options) you won't feel disappointed if everything doesn't go as you had hoped.

To balance it out a little, my sister had a ventouse (I've no idea why, but I assume it was necessary) and managed fine with pethidine and came away without a tear or anything.

Labour is very unpredictable, and you just have to go with what works best at the time

I had an episiotomy and a ventouse, due to DS having rather a large head which got stuck. I had expected to have the perfect birth, with only a bit of G&A, all was going to plan until the midwives started whispering in the corner. Consultant arrived, very nice man, explained that I would have to have an episiotomy and ventouse; to which I firmly replied that I did NOT want to do that thank you very much. Consultant said I would have to have a C-section as I could not deliver this large baby otherwise.

I agreed to the ventouse. The consultant (he was Egyptian I think) said 'It will not harm the baby, but his head will look like a bishop's cap'

Freaked out for a couple of seconds until I realised he meant the Popes cap. Phew.

All in all, it was ok. It was my first time, so I don't have anything to compare it to, I was just glad he was out and in my arms. I was sore for about two weeks after with the stitches and all, but worse things have happened.

Looking at the growth charts for head size, DS is in the 99th centile! Does my baby have the fattest head on MN?

I'll add another positive story.

DS2 was a ventouse delivery. I didn't need an episiotomy and only had a very minor tear that didn't require stitches. It didn't hurt and it was very quick and efficient.

I'd been in labour for 36 hours by that point (with no sleep) and I'd had an epidural already. I could still push with the epidural (and I could tell when to push too), but it was very slow. After pushing for over an hour the registrar (who'd been monitoring me because the sensors are rubbish and DS2's heart rate appeared to keep dropping (it wasn't, the sensors just suck) decided to get out his suction cup.

The midwife was insistent that I could do it on my own, but I was happy to let the doctor go ahead. I had to push for over 2 hours with DS1 and it was dreadful. I didn't want a repeat of that. Also, I was simply exhausted and just wanted it to be over.

Turned out that DS2 was lying in an awkward position and needed to be rotated and he has a huge head (also 99th percentile). I'm pretty certain I could have pushed all day and he'd never have come out on his own. He had a mark from the suction cup on the back of his head that scabbed over and looked horrible for about a week. Otherwise he was completely fine.

I don't think it's worth panicking over these things. No one is going to plan for an instrumental delivery, but sometimes it's necessary. Some people have really horrible experiences, others don't. Sadly that's just the way labour is.

Very disapointed that DS's head is not the largest.

I think it is entirely down to the skill of the consultant. In the same way that a good midwife can stop you from tearing (not always but almost always)

I had the same concerns and did not want an instrumental delivery. Of course it can get to the stage where you have no choice but at the stage where they prep you for theatre for a trial of forceps/ventouse then c section if it does not work you can refuse the trial and go straight to c section.

have a hpynobirth www.hypnobirthing.co.uk/

x