Not sure I want hubby as my birth partner anymore ... (warning big whine)

[Rochwen]

This is more of a whine then a question but perhaps some of you had similar experiences. I need some advice (and sympathy, )

After attending our first NCT class yesterday hubby and I started discussing childbirth and I found that our views totally clash and, probably due to my current hormonal state, his attitudes upset me very much. Due to previous surgery I will probably not have a very straight-forward birth and end up with either a c/s or an instrumental delivery. I have an appointment with a consultant booked in week 36 where we will be discussing my birth options. I have decided that I will ask for a planned c/s and I think given my medical history there is a good chance that I will get one. However, when I told hubby about my decision he said taht this was 'out of the question' as it is major surgery (doh !) and I will have a 6 week recovery period (how quick does he think I will be jumping about after a forceps birth and a major episiotomy?) and that we (!!!) should try for 'natural' birth as this is better for the baby (???). I couldn't believe what I was hearing. How can he dare to decide what kind of birth I should be having ! Anyway, when I told him about my fears of a long labour, instrumental deliveries and emergency sections he just said told me 'not to worry', and that 'thousands of women have babies everyday' and 'you'll survive, it's only a couple of days'. That was not what I wanted to hear and his insensitive attidude really upset me. He just can't seem to comprehend that I'm genuinely afraid.

Then we continued discussing what would happen during my 'trial of labour' (if I decide not to take the c/s) and I asked him if he would fight my corner when the consultant or midwife wanted to do something that I didn't agree with and he simply said that in situations like that we have to trust the professionals. Unfortunately I don't trust the professionals and now I don't trust him anymore. I now feel that I will be all alone during my labour with no-one to take my side.

I always felt safe in the knowledge that hubby would be there for me and make sure everything would be alright but after last night's conversation I'm just not sure anymore.

I wish I could have a doula but there are not doulas up here.

I'm sorry this has been such a long-winded whinge but I really needed to get it off my chest. I'm still very upset.

You know I already feel so much better about this. Thank you for care and advice.

Mears, unfortunately one-to-one midwife care is not available at our hospital (it's a big teaching hospital) and when it's busy you hardly see a m/w during labour at all. They just monitor you.

Oh and regarding the birthplan, hubby doesn't like those either as 'we just have to go with the flow on the day'. He says it's unrealistic to demand certain things as you don't know what's going to happen. I sort of understand what he means but having a birth plan gives you at least some sort of feeling of involvement, IMHO.

I've just spoken to a (female) friend and she echoed much of what you have said. She said that it's my body and I should be the one to decide what happens with it.

Pooka wrote: 'but I would be seriously worried if you went against your instincts and had an unpleasant, health threatening natural birth at his instigation, because of the effect that might have on your relationship' That's a very good point !

I'm fully aware that we need to sort this out and that I have to find out exactely why he thinks the way he does but unfortunately I don't feel very confident at the moment to have a real discussion with hubby and stand my ground. I just turn into tears and that has no effect.

I think I will go to the consultant's appointment on my own, otherwise I might just let hubby and consultant decide what happens just because I feel intimidated. (It's awful, before I got pregnant I was a very confident woman.)

RedZuleika, I think you just hit the nail on the head. I think hubby just doeasn't have enough information yet. He seems to have rose-tinted glasses on. He doesn't know e.g. just how a 3rd degree tear can affect the health of a woman permanently, he just thinks it's all natural and a bit of panting will get you through the worst. For some women this might work but, either my circle of friends is very unlucky or this really is a reality, childbirth is horrific and certainly does not feel 'natural'. Most of my friends were surprised just how little all these breathing excercises had helped and how much they had panicked during the birth.

...would you believe it he even accused me of 'reading too much scary stuff on the net' yesterday. What is no information better?

(Sorry, I don't mean to make him sound awful, he really is a wonderful man but yesterday I felt I was talking to a stranger.)

Message withdrawn

Umm, so he is happy to 'trust the profesionals' over your head in a trial labour, but not 'trust the professionals' when they are telling you that a cs may well be advisable but it goes against HIS idea of birth.

oooh, logic short circuit! explain to him v-e-e-e-ery slowly, in words of one syllable!

agree with giraffeski... a birthplan isn't "demands"... it is just a list of how you would LIKE things to be, if possible.
Everyone involved realises that your birthplan may not be stuck to 100%, but it gives the people there with you an idea of what you want...

whereabouts are you rochwen?

you have my utmost sympathy and empathy

but maybe what you said to your DH came totally out of left field to him and he just reacted automatically, after all we all have pictures in our minds about how our births will go (and how we will cope) before the day. Maybe he had these visions of being a supportive birthing partner and cutting the cord and all of a sudden got a shock to realise that wasn't what you had in mind at all

I found out around 32 weeks with first child that I would need a C/S and my first reaction too was 'out of the question' .. it took me a week or 2 to get over it and realise it was the best option for me.

I have to say you have the luxury of time to work this out between you. Now is a totally hormonal and scary time, for both of you. Don't let a stupid gut reaction spoil it for you both .. talk to him (after you've made him suffer a bit for being a total ar$e of course)

oh and get a couple of 'real' birthing videos if you can .. not the glossed over discovery health versions and make him watch them

Rochwen - do you mind me asking why you are concerned abut a 3rd degree tear. Do you think you are more likely to have one because of your previous history?

By the way, we are a teaching hospital and have one-to-one care. Where are you booked to give birth?

Well, I've cooled down significantly since yesterday and I feel much better today.

Thank you all once again for your wise words and sympathy.

Mears asked: 'do you mind me asking why you are concerned abut a 3rd degree tear.' I only know two other friends who were in a similar situation as I am now and one ended up with an emergency c/s and the other, poor thing, had to have a 'high forceps' (sounds barbaric) delivery with an episiotomy and, unfortunately, a third degree tear which made her anally incontient and she is still having treatment for it seven years later. Needless to say that after her experience she chose not to have anymore children. The reason I'm worried about it is that this scenario simply sounds horrific. I certainly don't want that for me, which is why I would always opt for a c/s over an instrumental delivery. However, I've heard (not sure if I'm correct in taht) that if the baby has decended too low into the birth canal a c/s is not always possible and I will have to have an instrumental delivery, which I really really really do not want.

Mears, just email me if you want to know what hospital I'm due to give birth.

Twiglet wrote: 'but maybe what you said to your DH came totally out of left field to him and he just reacted automatically' I think you might be right with that, really good point. I was so wrapped up in my own indignation that I haven't even considered his point of view.

Maybe this thread will reassure you a bit about tears here

High forceps are no longer done. You can put in your birthplan that you do not want an instrumental delivery but would prefer C/S. If forceps are being considered then head is high enough for C/S. Ventouse is done when baby is very nearly there. Less likely to have 3rd degree tear with ventouse.

I really sympathise with you, and having read the thread think that most people have said it all, however, I would agree on the birthing plan thing. When I had ds I wrote a birth plan and it was not stuck to due to circumstances, however, I would look at it as a wish list, and at least it will communicate to the midwives your views, at a time when you possibly wont be able to express yourself to the best. On the birthing partner issue, I had my bf in, who had triplets via cs, so she had never been through normal delivery and she was fantastic. Not only for me, but support for dh as well. On the recovery thing, she said that she had 3 babies to look after, so she just had to get on with it!
I do agree that it is difficult to express yourself rationally when you are so hormonal, and that once you have had time to cool off as you seemed to have done, that writing things down is a very good idea, less confrontational I guess.
I am also concerned about 3rd degree tear as I had one before, 17 months ago, and am due again next weekend, however, a meeting with the consultant really put our minds at rest.
Good luck

I meant to say that I thought it would be better to have dh in with you at the consultant appointment, as knowledge is important for both of you, any way, good luck

Dear Rochwen,

Just wanted to try and make you feel better. Your emails show you think your hubby is a good bloke - but that's why you're probably feeling worse - because you don't feel 'united' at such an important point in your lives.

Maybe he said that a c/s was 'out of the question'...'major surgery', and '6 wks recovery' because he is really concerned for you under going what is - to be fair to him - a major op. He's probably incredibly anxious for you - and that's his way of expressing it. He may feel less in control to help you thro it if it becomes more 'medicalised'. But, that doesn't detract from how you are feeling, and why you think it is a better option for you.

I know as the weeks have progressed - my first baby due imminently - i've had emotional lows and at times felt a little bitter towards my husband - because although he's a top bloke (like i'm sure your husband is), he isn't enduring the discomfort i currently am, and will be doing before, during and after the birth (us woman have it good ey?!). So, maybe writing down your concerns is a good idea - just so you can talk through them.

His comment about the birth plan is in a way realistic - as in, no one quite knows what the hec is going to happen on the day - but, he is probably missing the point that doing one would make you feel more in control in a frightening situation - even if it isn't adheared too for whatever reason. At the end of the day, he'll still be able to talk - we won't in full blown labour! So try and talk to him, and do one - for you. His comments are probably his way of trying to be as realistic as possible. But we all know men are rubbish at communication!

Try writing your concerns down on a letter. It's much better to talk about your worries than bottle them up from him. It really will make you feel worse if you feel 'parted' at such a crucial time. You'll be miserable and so will he! I think you can work this out - and when you're holding that warm bundle of love - you'll wonder what on earth the worry was all about.

Very best of luck. xx

Rochwen - can I ask how you know there aren't any doulas near you ? I am happy to find you one (and some charge expenses only) if that is helpful.
Just CAT me or jsut post here which part of the country you are in.

rochwen - i had a c/s after about 4 hours of pushing with dd. The midwife could see her head it just wasnt coming out and indeed she was very low in the birth canal. They actually took me to theatre for a forceps delivery but found I hadnt fully dilated (7cm) so performed an em c/s.

I've been a birth partner teice for friends who were uncomfortable about having there partners there with them.

on both occassions my friends have said how good it was having someone there who had experianced labour and birth themselves, and that they felt more comfortable having someone there who was 'on there side' and knew what they wanted.

bump for Rochwen

After our antenatal class on pain management and pain relief, dh did say "oh, I think we should do it without any pain relief" and I gave him the "look". However it was his baby too, and he was just working with the facts he had been presented with. I took his views into consideration when I decided to have a waterbirth in a birthing centre. Our views were obviously more similar than those of you and your dh.

It's such a shame that we go into birth feeling as if we will have to do battle with midwives and consultants.

Rochwen I really do empathise but whilst it's very important to equip yourself with as much information as you can, I think it is also possible to psysche yourself out a bit, and I certainly found that I had a couple of aquaintances who seemed to relish telling me as many graphic horror stories as they could. Labour can be scarey and awful and it certainly does hurt but it can also be a very life affirming and wonderful experience, so do try to find some friends who can tell you about the positive aspects. Best of luck.

Rochwen, is there only one hospital you can go to? Could you cast the net further and see what else is available?

I've always only considered one hospital locally but as my local geographical knowledge has increased and my knowledge of local maternity services, I know if I ever had another baby there's no way I'd go to 'my' hospital. A journey to even the furthest one of the others would mean only a 30 minute maximum journey instead of 15.

Rochwen If I were you I would gently broach the subject again and see what he says. If he spouts the same shite, I would just tell him that if his attitude didnt change he would not be in the delivery room when the baby was born. You need someone there to act on your behalf coz ou wont be able to think straight.

Wow, you've all been so incredibly supportive and I love all the differnt angles you have on that subject. It really got me thinking.

Yes, I will broach the subject with hubby again, I'll give him a bit of time to cool off first and think about it all. I will also write down exactely what I am feeling in a way that he doesn't feel like I'm blaming him. However, it will be me who will make the final decision on what kind of birth I am going to ask for.

Pupuce I will send you an email (via the request thingy) with my details because if I decide to go through a trial of labour I would love to have a doula with me. The only reason I think there are none in my area is that there were none registered on the net for my part of the country, so perhaps you know somebody.

Mears, if I ask them for c/s instead of an instrumental delivery should the baby not come out will they adhere to that? What happens if the theatre is full and they can't get me in quick enough? That will mean that I will end up with an instrumental delivery, won't it?

SueW, yes there is only one big hospital with consultant care in my area.

Satine, I totally agree, I think I am a little 'over-psyched' at the moment. It's irrational but I'm just soooo scared of the birth. I'm not sure how I can sort this. I guess I just don't trust myself to come through this and I'm so worried about the damage I might do to myself. I really wish I didn't have to do this.

Hi Rochwen - just wanted to add my 2p to this thread. Men can say some stupid things and the "aren't you making a bit of a fuss over something so natural" line is a common one (you'd think they'd hand fathers-to-be a leaflet advising them of things not to say). Here are my thoughts:

• the recovery after any birth (esp first) is long. I shuffled around for weeks after my dd was born.

• a birth plan is very useful. It isn't a set of demands ... you just write what you would prefer ... e.g. to start off with gas and air, try a birth pool, then if not coping an epidural (or maybe you want an epidural to begin with), want to be kept upright and not on your back, if a c/s is likely then you do/don't want to see your baby born etc. My midwives read it and followed it - so it was reassuring to know that even though I had forgotten all about it, our wishes were being noted.

• also not sure why you think you're going to have an assisted delivery, apart from your friends having gone through it. I know lots of people with babies and only a tiny number had an assisted delivery, and I don't know anyone who had a 3rd degree tear. I had my baby in the pool and (stupidly) didn't listen to the midwife and pushed her out too fast too soon ... she was nearly 10lbs and I did tear. It is painful but you do get over it. I know this isn't going to help if you're terrified but just wanted to reassure you not all births turn nasty!

• Not sure if you've had any conversations with you dh since. I think I would remind him that although his opinions are welcome, ultimately it is you who is going through this and therefore his role should be to support you and your wishes whatever they may be. My mother in law was always so glad her dh wasn't with her when she had her children because she said she knew she wouldn't be doing it right in his opinion. Be straight with him and remind him his presence at the birth is to (a) help you get through it, and (b) to witness the birth of his child. Not to project manage the whole event, nor to ignore you over the professionals.

• don't underestimate the pain and recovery you have to go through with a c/s.

Whatever you choose you will get through it. I was terrified but kept reminding myself to think of all the wet blanket women I knew who'd had kids - if they could do it, so could I.

Good luck xxx

Rochwen - if the theatre is full then the medical staff will be in it as well if it is like our unit. Instrumental delivery could not be done unless it was an emergency situation and support medical staff called in to do it.

You can discuss this issue with your consultant. Some instrumental deliveies are classed as a 'lift out' i.e. the baby is almost there. In that situation then ventouse may be used which just aids descent of baby when you are pushing. You can have a ventouse with no stitches. There certainly are a lot of variables to be considered. If the baby still had a way to come then I do not think it is unreasonable to ask for C/S in that situation. You could have that agreed in advance in a birthplan.

Rochwen,

Sorry cannot read all the posts on here, so apologies if I repeat something that has already been said. I think that if things (his thinking) does not change then take in one other person that you feel will support you.

But I would strongly advise that you make sure that your hubby is there during the birth, he will soon change his thinking. He is saying all this now but when the time comes I am sure he will go along with your wishes and empathise with what is going on.

I hope I made some sense.