How do you get over a traumatic CS?

[Mazzletov]

Mumsnet is a funny old thing. Thousands of threads probably contain this info but it's hard to search for it.

I'm starting this post because some generous women have very kindly shared their diffcult stories over the last 24 hours and I would ask anyone with words of wisdom, advice and support to speak up here. I've been weeping, particularly, about people who contributed to my other 2 threads who hadn't realised their feelings were COMMON. (I hadn't either, until I found Mumsnet.)

Please add details of helplines, support organisations or just words of sympathy and encouragement here! To avoid clogging up the Original Post I'll put mine in a separate post. Thanks all. x

I've just revisited this old thread, the first I ever posted on, where lots of MNers were offering consolation and support to a particularly upset mum. I wrote reams but included my 5-point plan for coming to terms with my cs:

1. Accepting that the surgery was NECESSARY. 20 years ago, midwives had the skill to deliver breech babies. Now they don't, because Drs prefer to do CS. I didn't have anyone to help me. (They advised me to push HARD - Sheila Kitzinger says DON'T push for a breech - RELEASE). this makes me sad and angry. But step back another 50 years ... we probably would both have died, or Erin could be badly mangled.

2. Accepting technological advances and appreciating the benefit. I still refer to NATURAL (not "vaginal") childbirth in preference to CS because I firmly believe that chopping a baby out of a woman is NOT NATURAL!! But neither are motor cars, or central heating, or voice recognition software, or any number of medical whatnots that make life easier (or even feasible) for some people. Without the surgery ... see above.

3. Being VERY ANGRY about the waning of skills in preference to surgery! You CAN be grateful but still wish the world was somehow set up differently. I had expected more of the gynaecological profession. (I'm told it's very difficult for a midwife to tell the difference between a head and a bum on palpating a woman's abdo - REALLY??)

4. Considering the many ill-fitting features of the natural world. I used to think, HOW can a baby be TOO BIG to come out?? How can it be in the WRONG position? Surely the goddesses ensure the compatibility of mother and baby? Then I remembered TEETH. They grow all wrong. They get stuck. We sprout too many of them. Interventions are necessary. Nature is full of inconsistencies. Often they result in painful and sad endings. I am shocked and disappointed that my body didn't work as I wanted it to - HOW did I make a breech baby? What did I do wrong? - and hope this feeling of inadequacy will fade.

5. Homeopathy. I had Arnica for pain relief and shock (physical and emotional); pulsatilla for weepiness and moodiness; Staphisagria for RESENTMENT and anger - and loads of other stuff for the infection in my incision (nice parting shot from the hospital!). Being able to refuse painkillers, antibiotics and other trappings of the medical world, instead supporting my body to look after itself, helped to re-assert my worldview and my faith in my physical being.
   ...

... and I ended with this particular message to the OP:
I don't feel that I gave birth to Erin. But I do feel that I MADE her, and she's so beautiful, and I'm incredibly proud. Like your DS she showed no distress at all throughout the whole adventure. Obviously she and Joshua had faith in the world, and the process, and their mothers - let's try to take a leaf from their book, and be accepting of what we can't change, and courageous about what we can.

Today, I would add a number 6: Cranio-Sacral Therapy (I believe cranial osteopathy is basically the same) for the LO. DD is having her 2nd treatment tomorrow. It's making me feel that I'm really, actually doing something to help "make better" the mess made of her delivery, and I wish I'd done it a lot sooner.

I once complained to a (different) hospital and got their procedure changed to protect other women from a very upsetting experience which I had there. It was easy. This time it took me nearly a year to work up the courage, but I'm hoping to get something positive from all of this, even if it's just that they routinely take a minute to ask if you'd like to see the baby before they clean it. (If there are other things you'd like adding to the list, please post on my other thread and if possible be SPECIFIC about what would have improved your CS experience!

I like the sound of point 4. It can be easy to assume that Nature works so wonderfully that babies should be born and survive without difficulty, because this is what we're designed to do.

But in other species this is not necessarily the case. If a giraffe has a breech presentation in the wild, both mother and baby will die. I keep wild caught species of livebearing fish and it is not that rare for a mother to die while or shortly after giving birth. In humans, you have the additional complication of that huge skull.

The thing is, Nature doesn't give a toss about the individual having a nice experience or even surviving. All that matters to Nature is that enough individuals survive for the species to continue. That might not necessarily have meant me and ds.

But it makes good sense to direct your anger, as you do, to the things that can be changed, like better training for midwives. We may have to accept the limitations of Nature, but we don't have to accept the limitations of medical training.

I had an emergency cs 3 weeks ago. The way I look at it is that 50 years ago there may have been less intervention, but you only have to look at the mortality rates to see what the other option is.

There are moments where I feel cheated of the experience. But then I remind myself that during the labour I was almost relieved when they mentioned a c-section as I was so knackered!

I got over my traumatic birth/CS with the help of counselling form the hospital. I was unaware this was available until I pretty much had a breakdown and my HV had me referred. I think most (if not all hospitals have a counselling person or team purely for women who have had a traumatic birth. There is help there.

Also, I had a de-brief with my consultant that explained exactly what had happened and why.Although they tell you just after the birth - I was too freaked out to take anything in rationally. Having this discussion a month or so down the line was a godsend.

It said on tv the other day that in Africa 1 in 8 woman die in childbirth. Western medics probably do intervene more often than is necessary, but for every live birth with a live mother at the other end surely that is better than some of the potential alternatives?

I was all NCT'd up to the eyeballs, ready for a water birth. I never even got into the pool.

The birth is such a small part of a child's and your life, and I think that falling head over heels and been soooo knackered left me little time to grieve for the birth I never had but had carefully planned. I was upset, but I think I just let go because regret wasn't going to change a single thing that had happened.

Elective C-section in 10 days!!!!

The thing is, not everybody can just make a conscious decision to let things go. Some people do go on to develop post-traumatic stress and they do actually need help. (I didn't do this about my labour, but it happened about something else to do with dd's early years and tbh I have still not been able to let go).

So I think two things are important:

a) preventive measures, such as better information, better training of medical staff etc.

b) an easily accessible programme of debriefing and counselling for those women who still end up traumatised- and to be frank, I don't we're ever going to be able to completely avoid post-traumatic stress for everyone

Oh dear, this thread didn't really do what I was intending. I do hope none of the heartbroken women who were kind enough to share their thoughts with me, regarding things that might have made their birth experiences easier, have read it.

People process things differently. One of the main reasons our local hospital's CS rate is so high, is that people are too GRATEFUL to dare question. Everyone says they're being silly; over-reacting; should be more appreciative; should realise they're lucky to be here; should take a leaf out of the book of that SENSIBLE woman who was GLAD of her CS. Everyone who spends time sobbing after an unexectedly difficult birth is well aware of all these things. They know they aren't being rational. But none of this helps relieve the sadness. I was really hoping for some sympathy and helpful links for people who are clearly suffering shock, grief, and despair. This "pull your socks up and count yourself lucky" finger-wagging wasn't really what I had in mind.

I think that's a bit unfair mazzletov, I don't think anyone's finger-wagging here are they? I do think that those who have suggested de-briefs with your consultant are spekaingh wisely. I am to some extent still recovering from a very traumatic 2nd CS over two years ago - it seems to have permanently affected my sex life, among other things. I don't feel that it has affected my relationship with ds2, but I am still considering discussing my notes with someone at some point, as I think that understanding properly what happened would help me to feel better, and less angry about what I went through.

I'm two years post traumatic c-section, and emotionally ready to move on and try for another DC. fistly, when my DS was a year old I went to someone to help me work thruogh the old birth, talk it out until it was out of my system. I wrote a letter to my prenatal teacher (which I never posted) blaming her for the unrealistic birth senario she gave me, and for leaving me unprepared for an emergency section. Next time around I will plan VBAC, but if I haven't started contractions by 40 weeks I will have a planned section. Every day I look at my beautiful, cheeky, intelligent DS and remind myself that he came from me, no matter which way he was brought into the world.

Hi Mazzletov

I understand exactly what you're trying to say, even though I'm someone who had 3 caesareans which didn't exactly traumatise me at the time. In fact, I didn't really think about them much at all until I came to plan a VBAC and then realised how I'd been conned out of decent births beforehand.

I work for a charity called ICAN ican-online.org (The International Caesarean Awareness Network) and have spoken to countless women who feel very much like you do. I'm also a doula. It IS possible to move on, and to have great births afterwards too (some of which may well be caesareans, but still altogether different, positive experiences when compared to last time) - but in the meantime there's a grieving process to go through. And it IS grieving - we often have this ideal of the perfect birth in our heads and it's that experience that women grieve for. Many women move on immediately and put it behind them, some women THINK they've done this and it all comes bubbling to the surface during a sbsequent pregnancy, and many women get stuck and just don't know HOW to move on.

Make a start by going here: www.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk/

Or you can contact me, either via the ICAN link or via www.betterbirthdoulas.co.uk

Hope that help.

I think it is worth having a debriefing - one of the reasons that my emergency cs wasn't traumatic was that I was kept informed every step of the way of what was happening and why. In fact the most traumatic part of my whole labour was being sent home from hospital in the early stages because i wasn't dilated enough (despite the fact that I was contracting every 2-3 mins, and the pain was every bit as bad as four hours later when I was finally admitted and allowed pain relief!). Knowledge is definitely power.

Also, I don't think anyone is finger-wagging - I think counting ourselves lucky and being grateful for the intervention is one of the ways people deal with what happened.

The thing is, emergency CS are often traumatic because of the rush and I think encouraging people to make lists of how to improve thier section experience can be misleading.

If it is a genuine emergency / crash section then there simply isn't time.

This is why i think focusing on the ways to recover from a traumatic section are possibly more useful.

I had a crash section with my DD and the thing that freaked me out the most is bizarrely the thing I am most grateful for now that i have come to terms with it.

What was it?

That they RAN down the corridor to theatre with me on the bed, shouting at me not to push no matter what.

This was my main PTSD flashback after the birth. Yet it was the speed with which the medical team acted that meant I got to have my baby delivered safely. i am now glad that they acted so quickly as the de-brief I had with the consultant made me appreciate what had gone wrong, when they picked up that there was a problem, and exactly why it was all such a massive rush.

Without the counselling I would never, ever have had my DS...

i agree with Cory - I don't believe it is possible to avoid PTSD for everyone, one persons "not quite to plan" birht is another person's traumatic experience. A lot of it is to do with realistic expectations - something none of us are encouraged to have.

around 23% of births in England end in a section, how many people even get this mentioned in their ante-natal care? I ceratinly didn't. Bit slack really isn't it since potentially a quarter of the women in the room could realistically end up with this type of birth one way or another.

RedFraggle you're right, in an emergency there really ISN'T time to make it all lovely and stick to the birth plan. But of those 23% of births that end up in caesarean, very few of them are crash sections. The majority are pretty routinely done for "failure to progress" and baby starting to show signs of being distressed. If the medics are really concerned, they'll do what they did with you.

It is distressing but most women in that situation find it easier to accept that they needed the CS and thus find it easier to move on.

I think it's very slack that the 23%/24% British caesarean rate isn't made more of during antenatal care - but not necessarily to prepare women that they may well be one of every four who has the CS. Surely it would make more sense to educate women in how to AVOID the CS in the first place?