Anyone know anything about unassisted birth?

[tumtumtetum]

I have been having a good think about all my options, which has partly stemmed from another thread, and think i should look into freebirth.

I have tried googling it but everything is very wishy washy and talks about magical birth orgasms and god helping you and doesn't really go into practicalities.

For eg last time I went to 42 wk + 2 before induction and emergency CS which was all fine but not sure whether previous CS precludes unassisted birth.

Also I am supposed to have anti-D jabs, presumably I just don't have them, does anyone know what the actual risk of jaundice is eg 1 in 1000 or whatever?

Just trying to weigh up my options here so would be grateful for sensible answers - must admit that I have always thought that people who did this are loonies but I am beginning to see why it is attractive.

TIA.

Oh am 21 weeks BTW all going well so far.

Message withdrawn

i think maxbear has some good advice, as do smallorange and crackfox

avoiding AN care due to fear/stress/upset is the issue that needs addressing

a woman presenting in labour at a hospital, with no records or AN care, is an unknown quantity

please do not believe everything the freebirth sites tell you

AN care is vital i believe , and as i said earlier has had a significant affect on mortality

i think you will be able to fin d good compromnise

Thanks everyone this is certainly giving me a lot to think about and it's nice to know there may be options open to me which fall between the two extremes of having the standard routine or opting out entirely.

I have had my 20 week scan and they have said I will need another as my placenta is a bit low but I think in practice it often rights itself as the baby grows.

It really goes against the grain for me to be thinking like this as I have had a lot of time in NHS care in the past - lots of time in hospital as a child which was all fine and a few other things and my CS last time which i found fine and the recovery straightforward. Just something seems different in my head this time around making me think that I want to stay away from them as much as possible.

The IM website says there are loads around here so that is definitely an option and I can have a think about the other options as well.

christiana I don't know really - I just skimmed the sites - but the consensus as far as I could see was that the jury was out. It was difficult finding anything to do with being rhesus neg/anti-D on the site I was on at all - the parts talking about how to provide your own ante-natal care didn't talk about it.

Maybe something do to with it being a blood product - some people I know don't like to be givne blood products for various reasons and there have been some scares with blood products in general.

I've only just looked at the sites a bit so I can't really answer your question more fully, sorry.

why not plan a homebirth and spend time choosing an independent midwife who you trust and can get on with? Things go wrong in births, that's just a fact, and babies die if there is no one to help them get unstuck or alert to a problem. The world health organisation doesn't say hospital is better than home, but they do advocate for a qualified birth attendant of some kind. By having a qualified person there, importantly whom you yourself trust, you are combining the best of both worlds. same with scans and tests, just have them, then make up your own mind what you want to do about the results. I understand you not wanting to be messed around with or go to hospital, and that is totally valid. At the same time you have to understand that it may be necessary. I'm in Holland and homebirth is the norm, I'm 36 weeks and planning one myself, however, you have to be realistic and have a midwife there, and also be prepared to be pragmatic and transfer to hospital if something goes wrong. otherwise you might lose the baby, and in my opinion freebirthing is only an option if you are genuinely prepared to risk losing the baby avoidably. this is the truly 'natural' way of giving birth and the reason our grannies were a lot more scared of the whole thing than us, they had grown up with the knowledge of things often going wrong and a fair number of babies, and mothers, not making it. So get your own midwife trusted by you and just have the standard tests, it is not purely devised to hurt you, some of this care may be misguided or unnecessary but just take it and then go your own way! good luck!

I can recommend having a home birth if you want to get on with it on your own.
I had both DSs at home and the MWs were pretty hands off both times, especially teh second time when I had a doula as well. She was great and meant that I called the MW late on in the labour, so have little intervention (no internals for example).

I appreciate your concerns after your first birth but do think that having someone there who is trained to deal with births, easy and complicated, is worthwhile.

TTTT - for what it's worth I declined the ante-natal anti-d jabs (there used to be 2) when pregnant with ds. Midwife supportive of my reasoning which was that the routine blood tests would show if I was developing anti-bodies and I was aware that would need jab if had bump trauma, but wanted to avoid unnecessary blood products.

After the birth I did however have to have the jab. Not unexpected, since I also had to have anti-d postnatally with dd (my first child) as well - DH is Rh+ and so always a possibility.

This time, the jury is out. I may/may not have the 28 week prophylaxis anti-d. Am still pondering.

But my not having the jab was founded really on being confident that other ante-natal blood screening would show if it was necessary, which it wasn't. That is why I would be concerned at refusing the jab and ante-natal/post-natal blood screening. The two conscious decisions combined leave a greater potential, IMO, of potential complications.

Gemzooks - I agree with you completely about the fear of natural childbirth experienced by generations gone by. And that was even with birth attendants with great experience of births, the grandmother/the local wise woman or whoever.

I agree with Lulu that ante-natal health checks/screening and appointments are a huge factor in reducing mortality in mothers and babies.

TTTT do you know what your DH's blood group is? Is he definitely R+?

tumtumtetum - I had a hospital birth with DD2 and it was a really good experience. It was in a birthing centre and DH and I were left completely alone (except for the occasional foetal heart rate and blood pressure checks) until my waters broke and DH asked for the midwife to come in. No-one touched me without asking, and that was very rarely, I had to ask to be examined internally and the whole ethos of the centre was completely "hands off". DD1 had almost died an hour after birth (she stopped breathing with no warning and no explanation) so a homebirth was a bad fit for us, the birthing centre meant that I had the homebirth experience and was in complete control - but visitors were only allowed for an hour a day and I bled over someone else's bathroom.

Regarding antenatal care - you are quite within your rights to question any tests or care and refuse it if you're not happy. There is no way that I would deliver without an anti-D jab if I was rhesus neg though - it's incredibly dangerous for subsequent babies.

CaliforniaBrit - I agree hospital birth carries risks.

I wonder what would have happened if you had needed an emergency C-section at home?

TTT, you've had some really good advice on here. I'm glad you're only 21 weeks - you have time to sort out sensitive, respectful care that you are happy with - but please do try to find a great midwife that can give you the right kind of support without making you feel it is foisted on you. I've worked in maternity care for some years, and do understand why you feel so alienated by it, but previous CS and RH- really do indicate you shouldn't be doing this alone.

BEst of luck.

I had an unassisted birth. Everything was fine.

BUT I did not plan it AND would not plan to have another (if I was ever pg again) despite having no problems at all.

I am all for homebirth, but planned unassisted just doesn't sit well.

To follow on from a comment of lulumama's -
Thinking about it, in my case I was admitted to the birthing centre because I had had regular antenatal care and the midwives therefore knew that I was low risk for hands-off natural childbirth. If they hadn't had that information and I had just turned up at the hospital then I would have only been allowed to admit to the consultant-led ward, which would have been far more intrusive and wouldn't have allowed me to have the birth that I wanted (and ended up having).

Plus having the antenatal care meant that I could make it very clear what my wishes were and be certain that they would be followed - I even had an interview with the head of the birthing unit, who wrote out my birth plan for me and signed it. I was completely in control.

ABetadad, judging by my two previous hospital births where I was unattended for considerable lengths of time, the chances are if I had needed emergency care, the midwives I had at home would have spotted a problem developing much more quickly and transported me to hospital 10 minutes away.

Generally, emergencies do not develop out of the blue, there are a lot of warning signs. And the vast majority of 'emergency' caesareans aren't actually emergencies. The most common cause for an emergency caesarean is failure to progress which is not an emergency situation.

Bear in mind it takes time to prepare a C-Section whether or not you're in the hospital.

There is of course a small risk of needing emergency care but my midwives were armed with full resuscitation equipment, plus drugs for haemmorhage etc. The chances of something life-threatening happening /suddenly/ and without warning at home that could not be dealt with before hospital transfer are incredibly, incredibly rare.

Again, please check the research. While home birth carries some element of risk, the risks of hospital birth may be even more increased. Certainly, the obstetrician I spoke to said they would give me drugs to strengthen contractions after several hours. This is /not safe/ with a caesarean scar. Hospital procedures are not foolproof and unnecessary interventions carry considerable amount of risk.

I /would/ have needed a caesarean section at the hospital. Being at home reduced my chances of having a c-section by a huge proportion and indeed I didn't have one. Caesarean birth carries a higher risk of infant and maternal mortality than vaginal birth, especially under general anaesthetic as I had with my first birth because the epidural's effect was not strong enough.

Seriously, this is about weighing up the risks on either side. Plenty of experienced medical professionals and researchers have argued that home birth is /as safe/ as a hospital birth for low risk mothers. Just because you 'feel' a woman is safe in a hospital doesn't make it the safest or happiest place to birth.

Also, you comment that you want a healthy, happy baby? How is a baby to be happy if the mother is suicidally depressed because of the trauma of a hospital birth where she feels out of control, violated and injured? At home, you have a /considerable/ amount of control that you just do not get in a hospital. And ultimately, a woman is her own best advocate to getting a healthy birth.

abetdad.. for most women who need an emergency c.s, i.e one that is not planned an advance, the majority are not crash sections that have to be done under general.

for many, it is due to failure to progress, which is not an instant thing. there are usually clues long before a transfer in to hospital is required.

there is usually a 30 minute window of opportunity at least for a c.s, but of course some have to be done v v quickly

but that can also happen in hospital

i think there are obviously pros and cons, and home birth is not for everyone, but nor is a hospital birth a guarantee of a safe delivery every time.

For a normal low risk pregnancy, a homebirth is statistically safer than a hospital birth with better outcome for both mother and child.

Having said that, personally, I think that "unassisted birth" would be downright stupid. Home or not, you need someone qualified to spot any danger signs. If you don't like the NHS midwives/set up, get an independent one.

Thanks Lulumama for putting that so much more succinctly

Agree entirely with SoupDragon. Home births are wonderful imo but I wouldn't try it without a professional. There are too many small things that an experienced midwife could deal with easily that could escalate if handled badly or not corrected. It just seems an unnecessary risk. Even if you get an independent midwife and ask her to sit in the kitchen drinking tea, at least she would be there

A lot of the antenatal care you could possibly handle yourself - urine tests and so on. I was a little bit when my midwife showed me how to check my own urine, but it was fine. And you could perhaps even buy a doppler to do checks. BUT.. a scan carries negligible risk (I know some people believe the ultrasound is bad for the baby but afaik there's no evidence of this) and is painless, and a blood test is so simple, why would you forgo those?

Good luck tumtetum

Goodness knows I am hands off, but regarding Rh problems I have to chip in with my 2d's worth:

Before anti-D jabs, many babies died at birth due to Rhesus incompatibility. A very great many more did not even make it that far, succumbing to miscarriage and stillbirth. My grandmother lost at least one baby at birth to rhesus problems. Anti-d is in my view a very small risk to undergo to improve the chances of any future babies you may have. You need to read up more about it.

I have had dozens quite a few doses of Anti-D over the course of 4 pregnancies (including 4 doses in my last 13 week pregnancy, one after every bleed). I fully intend to have the prophylactic one offered at 28 weeks this time. As far as I'm aware (and the first anti-d was 16 years ago) I have had no ill-effects, and I'm 41 now.

Also, as a 2x homebirther, I really wouldn't suggest to any first time mum or one who's had problems in the past that they go it alone. Try in the first instance insisting on a homebirth (so you can be attended by a single midwife throughout your labour), no matter what they say to you, and see how far you can stretch their resolve. As others have said, scar is extremely rare, but no-one knows how your body would react in your second labour. Unassisted birth would not be a very safe option in my view.

californiabrit, i am not sure how i missed your long post! that i basically just repeated

also, tumtemum, in an unassisted birth, you have your baby to consider too.. and your feelings and concerns about the birth or going to antenatal appointments might pale into insignificance, should your baby be born compromised due to lack of care in the pregnancy and birth

how does your DH feel about it ?

also, you said earlier your placenta is quite low and you are going to need another scan. the possibility of a placenta previa and the complications thereof would mean , for me, no HB, without a scan to ensure it has moved, and certainly not avoiding further scanning

Lulumama

Thanks ever so much everyone for all your advice - I will definitely be looking into things a bit more. I have also discussed with DH more about my worries/feelings in general and he is a bit worried and thinks I should go to the GP, which I think I will do.

As he rightly says it makes no sense to forego ante-natal care and try and give birth by myself just to avoid leaving the house - he thinks it is a different problem that needs addressing.

In the meantime I have been looking into independent midwives as that sounds like a really good idea and would mean I could have my anti-D. i have no idea what blood group DH is BTW - I was asked earlier. I guess better safe than sorry. It's just good to know that I should be able to access ante-natal care one way or another without having to go up to the hosp if I am still feeling weird about all that.

Thanks again all, it's been really helpful reading al your responses.

I missed the RH-ve part of this. I'm a rh+ve baby of a RH-ve mother with 1 or more rh+ve older siblings. I was induced 4 weeks early as the antibodies in my mother's blood were effectively killing me. This was before Anti-D jabs. I had an exchange transfusion at birth and was in special care for a week or so I think. My parents were told that under no circumstances should they have another child as my case had been severe - the next probably wouldn't make it. I was fine (obviously) but I don't think I'd risk not having anti-D jabs (not that it's a problem given I'm rh+ve )

I had most of my antenatal appointments at my GP surgery. Is it the hospital or simply leaving the house that is your main worry? If you explained your problems would the community midwives come to you?

It's just leaving the house really - I hoped it would get better once the first trimester was over but it has got worse to the point where I get panicky about going out. I was trying to find a way around having to go to the hosp as that would mean I wouldn't really have to go out at all without DH but I suppose that's not really the answer.

I am feeling a little better today (it's very up and down) and more positive about being able to sort this out without doing anything extreme.

Thank you all again you have really helped me.