UCH, Whittington or Royal Free?

[sazza1970]

Just wondering if anyone could help me decide where to have my baby. The Whittington is our closest hospital, and I'm due to go there at present (I'm 18 weeks), but have heard mixed reports; I'm considering the Royal Free as it's relatively near and is a bigger teaching hospital; UCH would be my first choice if it wasn't so far away. I'm an older first time mum (38) and am feeling really anxious about this decision. I've done tours of the Royal free and Whittington, but UCH doesn't allow you to look round... does anyone have any advice?

Thanks SC. I will let her know.

I don't know how to spell his name but it sounds like Dr JaJa is at the RF and he is absolutely wonderful.

I was terrified and having an awful time, some of the doctors were unpleasant but he made me feel safe and I trusted him completely.

The midwife called Abbey who previously worked with him in Africa was awesome and not a day goes by when I am not grateful that she was with me during my labour.

SympatheticConsultant ; please thank these two wonderful people for me.

Dear LadyAga,
It is Mr JaJa,I will convey your gratitude and I'm glad they both made your pregnancy and delivery a more manageable experience.

Hope you are both doing well now!

Hello,

Excuse the intrusion (I am a man) as I stumbled on to this discussion while googling something. My wife and I have just lost our baby after 16 weeks due to Patau Syndrome and I would like to just stick up for the Royal Free as I see it comes in for a bit of stick. While things aren't all perfect with the system at the Royal Free and you do have to make sure your appointments are booked etc, I believe that when things do go wrong with the pregnancy (as in our case) then it does have its strengths. In particular Anne Marie Whitewright who is an outstanding midwife, very caring, sensitive and professional and runs the Fetal Medicine Unit on the 5th Floor was a major help in us dealing with our experience. Also the consultant we saw Miss Kadir was also very professional and competent my wife and I would trust her completely. While I obviously have no experience of the other hospitals or full term labour, I do believe that if you do have a high risk pregnancy there are worse places to be then the Royal Free Hospital. It is a big hospital and it does have the resources when needed.

UCH. I was in labour for a long time and finally had an ends, and the midwife teams and surgeon were fantastic. The new building is clean and generally well run, though I did have some trouble getting discharged, and I'd have appreciated it if they banned TVs after midnight. Antenatal care was excellent.

A colleague of mine is currently having an unhappy time at the Whittington maternity ward, and the A&E is poor, but no doubt it has some strengths - I just haven't heard about or seen them.

Hi Notquiteamum,
I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby, it is the most difficult aspect of our job when we have to break such sad news and manage such difficult situations.
I am so grateful you took the time to share your experence at the Royal Free with others for what was and must still be a difficult time.
I have known Anne Marie Whitewright since I was a medical student at the Royal Free many years ago and as you say she is an out-standing Midwife who has touched the lives of so many parents in a positive way. I will feedback to Anne Marie next week, Rezan Kadir is a friend and close colleague who also now is developing an unmatched international reputation for managing pregnant mother's with Haemophilia and other bleeding conditions. Women with such conditions are transferring their care to us from other eminent Maternity units across London.
But Anne Marie & Miss Kadir are 2 amongst many of our staff who are striving to make this a better unit.
We are well aware of the problems with the RFree appt system and next week we are bringing in major changes to remedy this long-standing issue. We have our faults but we do also have many strengths which often go unmentioned!

I posted earlier with a negative post about the royal free,but I must say I am so impressed with Sympathetic consultant and her/his kindness and enthusiasm that I am slightly swayed!

I have kept track of this thread.

I too am impressed with Sympathetic Consultant and hope that the RF genuinely has improved it's maternity care since I had my first baby there.

On a personal note, it is difficult for me to be generous when talking about the RF. I felt that they treated me like as less-than-human (not just one, but many members of staff) and put my health at risk through negligence. I still don't like to think about my son's birth.

However, I take on board all that SC has said and of course, NotQuiteAMum's touching story of his experiences at the RF. It bodes very well indeed.

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I gave birth to my first baby on 3 June in the birth centre at the Royal Free and had a really wonderful experience there. Despite the fact it was a very busy night, the care we received was never anything less than first-class, the room we were in was spotless and, most importantly, the fantastic midwives who were with me (Ana and Katie) knew exactly when to stand back and let me do what my body wanted to do.

After an initial trip to triage in the afternoon (where the two midwives were also delightful and came by the following morning to see the baby when their shift started again) due to my waters having broken, we came back to the hospital when my contractions were about two minutes apart and were lucky enough to get the room with the pool. However, within ten minutes of getting in the room, I was already fully dilated and wanting to push, but I was still allowed to get in the pool and my little girl had a lovely serene arrival underwater (and I didn't tear, partly due to very clear instructions about breathing from Katie when the head was being born). There was then no hurry to clamp the cord and get us out of the pool (waiting for the cord to stop pulsating was on my birth plan, all of which Ana had read thoroughly - without being asked to - the minute we were in the room) and also a willingness to let me deliver the placenta naturally, despite this taking over an hour and a half. (In fact, I did need some intervention in the end, but this was only encouraged once it was clear it was necessary, as opposed to being a clock-watching exercise.)

Because it was such a busy night, there were no beds on the postnatal ward so we got to stay in the delivery room for the rest of the night (and watched the sun come up over London) and because all was well and the paediatrician was available to come and check the baby first thing in the morning, we went home after ten hours and I never did go to the ward.

As for antenatal appointments, I had no problems at all with my scans - was always seen promptly and felt that the sonographers did a thorough job. I also saw the same community midwife every time from around 25 weeks so had great continuity of care on that front. Finally, on the odd occasion I was worried about something and called either the midwives or the labour ward, I always got a friendly and reassuring response.

Honestly, my partner and I can't fault the care the Royal Free provided us and I'm sure we can't be an isolated case, so I really hope any problems of the past don't continue to haunt the department now they're doing such a great job.

hi i had my 1st in EGA uch and was not happy with the way i was treated an would not go back there, i have chosen to have this baby in the whittington so far so good every hospital has there problems but i am finding everything good at whittington so far good luck

Hi. I have been referred to EGA as well and got the first appointment with Mrs Tahouri. has anybody seen her before? thanks

Hillching

I had DS in Royal Free in late 2006 and still can't sleep if I starting thinking about how awful the experience was - despite his eventual safe arrival.

The Birth Centre midwives were skilled and caring. The BC was clean and well set up (although I was left alone for much of labour). I have nothing else positive to say about the place.

I don't think the problems were one-offs which might happen anywhere. I recognize most of the issues raised by other women on this thread, suggesting they're common and persistent. The problems I had were mostly structural, to do with hopeless internal organisation and communication.

Just one example to illustrate general atmosphere: like NigellaTufnel I found staff don't greet or look at the pregnant women. This was particularly noticeable in the Day Assessment Unit where you are supposed to go if you have a problem in pregnancy (not that anyone tells you that) - and where the women coming in are therefore often very frightened. The midwives snatch their notes without even looking up. And not because they're busy - I once sat and waited for 45 minutes while the midwife arranged her home insurance on the phone.

It is encouraging that SympatheticConsultant is concerned about the hospital's reputation. However, I can't see how maternity services there could have been made even adequate without replacing most of the staff and completely refiguring the management.

I wonder if they've now set up a 'birth afterthoughts' where women can go back and talk to someone about how it all went - and where the feedback gets into the system. These seem to be spreading and give an indication of whether hospitals are concerned about their users' experiences.

Hi there,
Had all mine at uch. in the birthing centre.(i was even born there). Brilliant staff. and have excellenct specialist/equipment. and really clean.
I have lots of friends who have had babies at royal free. not one has anything good to say. reading rest of the threads! seems thats the general opinion! Good luck xx

Royal Free-ers: I've started a new thread about the RF. Curious to hear if women currently/recently using maternity services there are seeing improvements.

Hi umf,

"However, I can't see how maternity services there could have been made even adequate without replacing most of the staff and completely refiguring the management"

This is exactly what has happened over the last 12 months. A new midwifery management team has been brought in and many of the "older members" of staff who were 'a recognised problem' have retired or been sacked (where concerns have been raised and not rectified)! Unfortunately within the NHS as a whole dealing or removing staff with attitude issues towards clients and other staff is not always an easy process to undertake. But I do believe that most of the problem areas within our unit have now been dealt with.

We have now doubled the number of dedicated Obstetricians working within the Unit over the last 12 months. Miss Alison Wright is running a post-natal debrief clinic for mums that have had difficult experiences and would benefit from an opportunity to talk through events afterwards. She is also heavily involved with the MSLC.
Five of us new Consultants started last year and it has been a difficult struggle for us to start reversing some of the negative perceptions the unit has developed over the preceding years. We are doing are best and there is a very different feeling about the unit now.

We are actively working to bring about an atmosphere within the unit, that we exist to serve and meet the needs of our users. Within the last 6 months we have been targetting all the staff groups to go through REACT training courses (User Awareness courses)to ensure they recognise the central needs of the user within our service provision.

The computer system was unfortunately forced upon us by higher powers and we are unlikely to be able to get rid of it. We have been placed in a "guinea pig" role where we are a testing ground for the system before the system is rolled out across most of the other London Trusts. This has not helped us, but I think we are now aware of the deficiencies of the system and together with the programmers are and have identified workarounds for the major issues.

Our current service drive is to ensure 90% of all referrals are booked by 12 weeks! We are aiming to get all mothers an appointment within 2 weeks of being referred and have stream-lined our appointment system accordingly. The new system went live this month and I would hope all mothers booked with us will see immediate and visible improvements.

Another longer term and more difficult goal is to ensure all women are seen in the ANC within 30 minutes! This is a problem I recognise that most Obstetric units struggle with.

We are all aware of the historical problems and the new team are actively dealing with them.

I am very keen to hear user experiences on all aspects of the service but would be very keen to hear experiences of current users or those who have been through the unit within the last 6 months. I'm especially keen to hear direct user experiences (positive and negative) relating to the following areas:

• Day Assessment Unit
• Triage and Delivery Suite
• The Birth Centre
• 5 South Antenatal and Postnatal ward

Unfortunately what has happened before I had no control over but I am now in a position to sanction actions to bring about changes in how we as a service function when deficiencies are flagged up!

We now really do want to meet and indeed exceed the expectations of our parents!

Hi oopsagain!
I'm sorry to hear your friend has had such a poor experience. Obviously its difficult to comment unless I review her case details.
Once she has had a chance to recover from the delivery it sounds as though she would benefit from the opportunity to talk things through with either myself or one of the other Consultants.
I'm not sure how it would be best for her to contact me so that I can make the appropriate arrangements.
Is there a way to send private messages on the forums?

Just to add - I also gave birth at RF in June 2007 and had a terrible experience (unsympathetic midwives, being blamed for not being sure my waters had meconium - surely that's their job?, awful awful pain with not enough pain relief and no-one listening to me, not being handed my baby for some time after birth, broken shower, being left with blood pouring out, cramped, noisy ward etc etc etc...) the list goes on. I'm sure it might have changed since then.

I just had my baby at UCH (had a choice between Whittington and Homerton). I couldn't resist the fact that its a brand new maternity unit and it didn't disappoint, staff were great, maternity ward squeeky clean.

I was googling something else and stumbled across this thread which made me realise I am not alone in feeling disappointed at my royal free birth experience. My son was born in oct 2007, so things may be better now. Basically I chose RF because of birth centre. On night I went in, the birth centre was busy and so in no time at all I was hooked up to all sorts of monitors in the normal lab ward and not encouraged to move around at all. The first couple of midwives were nice but the last one who was there for delivery was extremely old school. She told me I was better off lying on my back and that most first time mothers thought it was better to be upright when in fact lying on bed was better. When my husband tried to ask if the birth centre was now available she was very grumpy. She said a doctor had to check me first as my sons heart was going down in contractions. Anyway be said it was ok as long as I gave birth out of water. She piled on so much guilt that I didn't go to birth centre. She said "I am speaking to you as a mother myself and you are risking your baby's life if you go there, it's up to you...." ...so in a lot of pain not thinking straight I stayed put and eventually gave birth naturally to a whopper of a 9lb7 baby. Right, got that off my chest! Been meaning to write to hospital! Next time round UCH I think!

Hello,

I'm 25 weeks and just had my first appointment at UCLH. Until now I was at The Whittington but had a few horrible experiences, appointments not booked, staff being rude and very patronising (I have forgotten my book once and have been asked what kind of mother I will be...). Also felt very depressed and tired and just been told I should be happy as it was the happiest time of my life.
Plus the antenatal and maternity section are very old and not always super clean.

At UCLH, people I've seen today were really helpful and nice. It was busy and I had to wait for a long time but I felt much better in a modern environment where things don't fall apart and people take time to explain things thourougly. I've seen a midwife called Evelyn Williams, lovely and funny.

Very happy to have changed.

I am SO confused now.

I went on a tour at RF two weeks ago and thought it looked fantastic. All the midwives smiled at us and said hello. The rooms were clean and bright and apparently they all have ensuites. The midwife showing us around was really patient and happy to answer questions despite there being about 50 people crammed into the room. But what I really appreciated was her effort to ensure the privacy of the women on the wards by walking ahead of the group to close ward doors and stop nosy parkers intruding as we went by.

Additionally when I enquired about twin births the midwife told me a new Consultant Midwife would be starting in August and I could have at least some hope of having a birth plan. No promises made but the implication was that if things went well I could use the birth centre.

Then compare that to my experience at the Whittington.

When I first rang I was told that I couldn't join the tour as I hadn't booked. I should just turn up around 3pm and a Care Assistant would show me round. So I did. When I finally found someone to talk to I was told fairly bluntly that I couldn't expect a tour of my own and I should go on the Saturday tour. Could the left hand talk to the right?!

So I waited a week to go on the tour. The midwife was monosyllabic. The room felt dark and dingy and everyone on the tour seemed scared to ask questions. To make matters worse, a woman was half on view recovering in the recovery room opposite. When I asked about twin births I was pretty much told I'd be attached to a bed and monitors and that was that. Then when someone asked about birth balls the response was that there were a few around... somewhere.

As she took then to see the birth centre I veered left and out the door!

So I've booked at the RF. But now I'm worried I've made a bad decision. Help!

Hi LondonDove,
Please give the services at the Royal Free we are really trying to restructure to give our mothers a much better service now. There have been lots of changes for the better over the last 12 months.
Are you having a twin pregnancy? If so you may end up being booked under my care or that of one of the other Fetal Medicine Consultants!
We have the highest level of dedicated consultant presence on the labour ward amongst all our neighbouring maternity units. as a results our historicallly hih CS rates are falling for the first time in many years!Our new Consultant Midwife starts next month and one of her main aims is to further develop up our Birth Centre.
So if you are keen for a vaginal birth with a twin pregnancy we will do our utmost to ensure the conditions are optmised with senior staff on hand to guide you through the process!

Had my daughter at UCH. Most awful experience of my life, staff genuinely could not care less. Lucky that both I and my dd survived (this was truly in spite of the UCH rather than thanks to the UCH), lots of infighting between midwives and nurses. Nobody takes responsibility, no doctors to be seen (especially not during nights, weekends). Would certainly not recommend to anybody. Later was advised by private paediatrician who had seen the full records, to sue, but could not face having to go through all this again. Definitely made me decide not to have another child.