Does it bother you that so many women are so uneducated about childbirth?

[Rohan]

Right, let me start by saying that I know that not everyone is interested in the whys and wherefores, and that many women are happy with their experiences regardless of whether they understood every technical detail or not. And that's all fine. I'm not suggesting everyone should have a midwifery degree in order to give birth.

But does it rankle with anyone else when you hear mothers talking about their experiences and those of others without the faintest clue about the fundamentals of childbirth? I mean, they've been through it, surely they had some passing interest in what their options were and what would/could happen? Surely they were offered some type of education on the subject? Yet there they are spreading misinformation time and again. I'm not suggesting they're malicious or stupid or anything like that, honest I'm not - but there are some things I'd honestly expect every mother and mother to be to know, even if they don't particularly care.

To give an example of what I mean, these are a few things I've heard recently from mothers I know (and like!! I'm not making this a competition)

"I can't believe they're making her have a natural birth this time, if she couldn't get the first one out she won't be able to get this one out either, will she?' (Without knowing what the preferences of the mother were)

"I cannot believe they've let her go overdue, and it's supposed to be a big baby too! It's cruel" (Again without knowing preferences)

"Water birth can drown the baby"

I just don't get it? Feel free to flame me, although I'd prefer if it you didn't , I'm trying to get some frustration out here and still be fair. I'm not saying against these women, merely wondering how they can be so disinterested in a subject that affects them so personally?

I've heard much worse than those but I don't want to start an argument

Sheila Kitzingers books and Janet balaskas were my starting point for ensuring the same birth did not visit me again.

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I found 'Safer Childbirth' quite readable!

And a real eye opener....

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i'm probably one of those uneducated women . with DS1 because it was a miracle he survived the pregnancy, i sort of put my head in the sand about the birth as i was terrified that something would go wrong. when it did, i just let the medics do their job. I know all births are different, but after the trauma of DS1, when it came to DS2 i wasnt prepared to go through that again so was happy to go along with an elective c-section.

i do agree however that NHS antenatal classes are shite with little information about the actual birth/labour.

lol... I worry more about the next 18 years than one day of childbirth.

Ante natal classes help you know what you might want, but ultimately you never know what a birth is going to turn out like. I am planning a homebirth, but if it goes pear shaped I will be in the hospital like a shot.

Having an open mind and not too high hopes is important. I think someone get very depressed and depondent when their very high hopes are dashed.

i have never been to an ante natal class (am on preg no 2 currently). i read a pregnancy birth first time round, and had a pretty good first birth experience.

I am in no way educated about the whole thing, i know whats going to happen and what bits of my anatomy may or may not be affected. but to be honest the whole giving birth thing is way bigger than me and quite frankly scary, i will make informed choices about what i want at the birth i.e pain relif and positions but at the end of the day most of that goes out the window when labour starts and you do what comes naturally/ what you want/ what's advised at the time. i personally preffer not to have to over think/ go into the whys and wherefores about giving birth because it would drive me batty and i would end up as a wreck, i preffer being slightly ignorant and putting my trust in the proffesionals becouse it makes me feel more confident and comfortable.

is this wrong?

pregnancy book not pregnancy birth sorry

"the whole giving birth thing is way bigger than me"
"you do what comes naturally/ what you want"

I think this sums up my idea as the best way to approach labour: acceptance that it will be overwhelming; listening to your body.

The only point at which I part company with you Santa is over the issue of trusting the staff who are caring for you to know what's best for you and your baby.

I think in an ideal world you could do this. Unfortunately this isn't an ideal world and you can't assume that the people who are going to look after you in labour are going to be able to put your comfort and safety over their obligation to meet the needs of the institution.

gabygirl,

I think its really sad that you feel you cannot trust NHS midwives and doctors to care for you. I had very good care when my son was born.

Being informed helps you to know what you want and within reason midwives and doctors will accodomoate those wishes. I think its stupid not to at least listen to the opinon of health professionals.

Although I might read the odd book, I am not as educated about childbirth as my own mother who is a retired midwife. She studied for four years and worked for 30 years as a midwife.

I feel that after having 3 DC I never realised all the scenarios and implications on your body and baby until I started working on a delivery suite.

To be honest i am kind of glad that I was in the dark otherwise i would have probably had a much more panicky outlook on the whole experience.
Sometimes to much information can be a bad thing.

Reallytired

I don't think gabygirl is suggesting not listening to health professionals. Just pointing out that sadly (and all too frequently) they do not have your best interests at heart - and it's important to be aware of their limitations and shortcomings. I too had very good care but know that not everyone is this lucky. You don't have to go far on this site to find plenty of women who have received substandard care.

Why do you think that health professionals do not have the patients best interests at heart? You might disagree with them, but they certainly mean well and are often very caring people.

It is true, that certain things done in hospital like continous monitoring, or inserting a canula in a woman's hand can interfere with labour. But I am sure these things are done by health professionals with the best of intentions.

I think that arming yourself with knowledge allows you to be part of the deciding process. For example knowing risks associated with petifidene or an epidural means you can make pain relief decisions that are best for you.

For example I would prefer an epidural over petifidene because I would worry about the small risk of subpressing the baby's breathing. However a woman who already has major back problems might choose petifidene instead.

This time with my bump I am interested in hypnobirthing. The only problem is the cost of the course.

Some (not all) health professionals are more interested in following hospital protocol, getting a baby delivered before a shift change, freeing up a bed, taking the easy option eg easier to give a pethidine inj than call for an epidural and prep Mother. Yes, I mean some are just plain lazy. Other times it can be a limitation of the service eg we need to get this bb delivered now as we wont have as many staff on in a few hours. Sadly some just aren't very good and don't recognise the benefits of an active birth/delivering in an upright position. I can't stress enough that this is not everyone but if you get the lazy/overworked/not up to date midwife (or the new Doctor) on the day you give birth it will become important to know a little of what is going on, what questions to ask and when to insist on what you want. 'Best intentions' are not good enough, intervention should take place only with good cause and based on sound evidence.

"I think its really sad that you feel you cannot trust NHS midwives and doctors to care for you. I had very good care when my son was born."

There are great midwives and doctors out there, but there's also a system that's breaking under the strain. I am CONSTANTLY hearing stories from local women about substandard care at our local hospital and it's hugely demoralising.

I've also experienced substandard care from the NHS in all three of my pregnancies (I had duel care with my third, shared between NHS and an IM, with my first I was fully NHS and with my second I booked an IM at 37 weeks because I had no confidence in the care I was getting in the NHS).

"It is true, that certain things done in hospital like continous monitoring, or inserting a canula in a woman's hand can interfere with labour. But I am sure these things are done by health professionals with the best of intentions."

No - that's not always true. CFM is not protocol for low risk women at our local CLU, but some midwives do it anyway, as it makes it possible for them to leave that mother alone for long periods of time in labour (so they can go and look after other people) and still claim to be monitoring her. In other cases midwives do things they believe to be actively HARMFUL to women, such as deprive them of food in labour, because it's the protocol of the unit. I know a number of midwives who have left midwifery and others who have gone independent because they felt it was impossible to practice true 'woman centred care' within the system as it stands right now.

"I think its stupid not to at least listen to the opinon of health professionals".

Who is talking about not listening to the opinion of health professionals?

I wonder whether some of this is because we are now so "insulated" from birth because it happens in hospital. And therefore because it is more medicalised there is more of a "the doctors must know all there is to know" attitude!

However, playing devils advocate, there is also a parallell development of largely first-time mums who have it all worked out (I was one ) - they've read the books all about waterbirth, natural childbirth, hypnobirthing etc etc, and it's all going to be the most wonderful, spiritual experience, and then of course it doesn't work out like that at all!!

I think that however much you read and inform yourself about birth, you really can't know anything about it until you're there, and then as every birth is different there's sometimes a lot to be said for "going with the flow"!

OP here, glad to see some healthy debate and differing opinions over this, it's what I wanted to start really.

I probably don't mean 'annoyed' as per the thread title, that's way too strong and I agree with a pp that 'sad' is probably a better word to use. In the same vein, I don't feel sad for those who don't want to know and feel safer/better if they are not entirely au fait with the technicalities. That's every woman's choice. But I do feel sad when I encounter those with a true ignorance of the basic processes - as with anything really, I do feel that if it affects you or has the potential to affect you deeply, you should know at least the basics. I feel very sad for those women who can look back and say 'if only' - not because they didn't educate themselves but because they didn't have the resources available to them and feel they suffered physically or emotionally as a result.

The issue of 'blame' is also interesting. I don't really want to use that word but I can't think of a better one. Where should the 'blame' lie? Should it be the reponsibility of MWs, docs or HVs to further educate women who wish it, or should it be the woman herself? And then there's the whole trust issue....I totally understand the whole 'trust the professionals and you'll be fine' mindset, I do. Unfortunately it's not something that always works out for the best IME. But then there's the case of the pregnancy books, which may or may not cover the specifics that end up being relevant to you, or in enough depth or currency to actually help.

Ack, I'm rambling now. It's a tough issue, certainly....but when I come across women who honestly don't know there are any risks to procedures they should be informed by law about....or women who lack the basic understanding of how a baby makes its way out.....it makes me wonder why.

"I wonder whether some of this is because we are now so "insulated" from birth because it happens in hospital"

I think this is very true. Birth used to be a social event that happened within the family.

Now it's a medical event that happens in hospitals, like operations!

"However, playing devils advocate, there is also a parallell development of largely first-time mums who have it all worked out (I was one ) - they've read the books all about waterbirth, natural childbirth, hypnobirthing etc etc, and it's all going to be the most wonderful, spiritual experience, and then of course it doesn't work out like that at all!!"

Unfortunately I think the bit that women miss out is the realisation that birth is actually a completely ANIMAL and PRIMITIVE experience - like having a crap and having sex.

I think some women actively blot that knowledge out. It's too frightening. So much of learning about labour is about wanting to take control of the experience, when in the event itself the key to preserving normality is generally creating the conditions that allow women to retreat from their rational selves.

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I was shocked when my SIL annouced she was pregnant as she is morbidly obease. I was even more shocked when nobody seemed to think her weight was an issue. SIL & BIL where getting tested for fertility? Him first? She hadn't had a period for 3 months so she must have had a misscarrage? She was worryed she might get G/diabities, so MIL handed out cakes followed by sweets? The list goes on. They are now worried the baby is large(obese?) and inducing early.
Yet when I spoke to my MIL who is a midwife (its her DIL) I was almost told not to be so silly, this girl is about a size 28 normally! How ignorant can you get?

Musthaveaveryshortmemory - spot on!

Rohan - IMMENSLY!

hmmmmmm i still feel like i dont know much,

my ds came early at 32 weeks and i hadnt really read up on the whole giving birth ins and outs mainly cus i was scared of the whole idea and thought i wud save it for the month off work before i had to go throught it!

Ended up with an emergency c section and must say that when i met up with mums after and they talked about how dilated they were etc etc i felt a bit stupid that i didnt know!

i really think that in earlier antenatal classes they should go through the possibility of a premature birth and special care and what to do with a baby etc cus when it happens u really dont have a clue what has just happened and youy feel you should know more!

My grandmother was so traumatised by giving birth in her rural village that she never had another child. Subsequent generations of my extended family have given birth in hospital and there isn't a single case of trauma. Just wanted to point out that different people have different experiences.