Ok brace yourselves for TMI ladies - I've just been advised that immediately after my C/S to...

[Lotster]

...Stick my finger in my vagina, or my husband's (finger, not vagina) if I can't reach, and stick it in the newborn's mouth before anything else does (nipple, anyone else's finger etc).

The guy who recommended this runs a local health shop and has studied Nutritional Medicine for decades, I usually go to him before the chemist/doctor and he's never let me down so far! He pretty much cured me of insomnia, gastric reflux, helped with depression, lots of things and I really trust him but am wondering if I will look like a complete nut doing this?!!

Through trying to keep an enlightened expression to mask my I heard him saying something about innoculating the baby with the right bacteria, which usually happens naturally in the birth canal, but not with cesaereans, and the result of getting the wrong bacteria first could result in the baby having an flammatory immune system as opposed to an inflammatory one... if I heard right.

Sooooo, would you do this? Have you heard of anyone that has? And what reaction can I expect from the medical staff at being asked to stand back whilst it's done?

TIA

Goodness me! I had a section 3 months ago and there is no way on earth that you would manage to do that!!

And anyway, to get the baby out a lot of doctors put their fingers in the baby's mouth to deliver the head with a section so that is first thing the baby will have in its mouth.

I'm just imagining my DP going down the end of the theatre trolley to try and stick a finger up my fanjo, the theatre staff would have thought he had gone off his rocker and he has to work with them

I have had a CS and I'm afraid this would be practically impossible. If you try to get to your fanjo you will fall off the operating table. I would advise against this. Also, you will be totally numb, so you could be sticking your finger anywhere. I too can have hippyish tendencies but in this instance I would be happy to roll with just the colostrum.

This is SO funny!!

I had a cs last week and just the thought of trying to stick my finger up my fanjo

It still freaks me out a bit that someone had their finger up my bottom to put in a suppository and I couldn't feel a thing

if the doc sometime puts his finger in the babies mouth to deliver it ............. no no no i am just thinking out loud

Probably the best thing you could do is to ask them to perform a 'Natural' section, one of the cons at my local hospital does it this way too. And I think that getting a mouthful of your breast within the first hour will help immensely with the flora/bacteria thing.

Stick your fingers in your vagina before the section and then wipe then all over your nipples. Job done.

I have heard it all now!. You will bleed straight after your c-section, and will have a catheter in. The last thing on you mind will be inserting your finger in there. surely there is enough bacteria on your nipple and skin for the baby to get a good dose when suckling. - Wonder what Ina May has to say on this?

Also, if your DH is anything like my DP he'd sooner stick hot needles in his eyes than be anywhere near my open wound. He would have passed out if he'd had to see what they were up to down there..

Hmm - seems a bit impractical to me - both dp and i had emergency sections and there was so much going on there's no way we would have been able/allowed to do that!

Both our ds's have amazing immunity by the way - they're very rarely ill and I can count on one hand how many times they've been sick (and they're 7 and 4 now!).

I'm with Lulumama - go with skin to skin and don't worry about the rest!

good thinking soupdragon.!!!

i'm with vacaloca. they usually come out with closed mouths. (trying not to think of the alternatives.)

lulu, if you do mention at the next forum, make another note to sit well back and avoid spluttered coffee.

am feeling a bit queasy

but for arguements sake, i had two very natural birth without intervention which meant babies were born in their water sacs (no midwife with a crochet hook) so although the passed through the birth canal they were in no contact with it

There is an interesting explanation for the theory on this web page

www.paleobioticslab.com/csections_breastfeeding.htm

I kind of agree with him in theory that childbirth does offer forms of innoculation, and I do think that is part by design that newborns are likely to get exposed to some GI bacteria just by dint of being close to the bum, but I am not aware of any strong evidence that c-section babies are known to be immunologically compromised by not having this bacterial exposure**. C-section babies will get exposed soon enough even if they dont at birth. Bugs are everywhere - cant escape 'em!

I wouldn't attempt trying the finger thing after C-section, although if you felt the need you could always ask for a swab and some help to do it. (not a bum swab though - fanjo at a push I imagine and if there are strep B issues its obv a n-no).

**just found this by googling
august 2008 article in journal of allergy and clinical immunology seems to have found a link betweeen c section and allergy where parents also allergic but looks like early days research.Other studies have not found anything, or only very weak links.

I've heard it all now.

Firstly, I doubt the surgeon would let you stick your hand through a sterile field to stick your finger up your vagina during the op.

Secondly, what the hell is a 'flammatory' immune system supposed to be? Sounds like nonsense dressed up as vaguely plausible pseudo-science to me.

My mind is at rest, wasn't sure if I wasn't enlightened "enough"!

thanks laydees! Will check again tomorrow but am off now.

mummy2t, you made my coffee come down my nose! ROFL

agree with emma there is no such thing as "flammatory" immune system or response.

IIRC (at a basic level) the inflammatory immune response is one of the earliest and most basic responses of the body to infection, but too much of an inflammatory response is the basis for some allergies (asthma, for example) and autoimmune diseases (i.e lupus). Newborns' immune systems need to mature while balancing out a good response to bad things (bugs that cause illness) but not to good bugs like normal gut bacteria, and ensuring they don't mount immune responses to "normal" things such as pollen or eggs or strawberries - (and of course it isn't always successful)

I believe we still don't understand a huge amount about exactly how the immune system learns to differentiate between these things, but it is generally considered that breastmilk, skin to skin contact, exposure to bacteria during birth is part of that learning process.
But as I said before - there are so many c-sections done now that if there was a strong link to any immunological compromise, IMHO we would already know.

disclaimer - i used to work in immunology, but my knowledge is out of date by almost a decade, i have a memory like a sieve, and things move fast in research so i might be talking out of my a*se on any of the aboce points

PS LOL@ceebee - I had never thought of that!

this is sooo funny!

wonder if you should also shove a finger up yer botty in case you would have pooed in labour???

I am not surely it would be physically possible and def not something I would have wanted to even comtemplate after my cs.

Oh and DD born by CS 6 years ago - no immunity problems at all; very healthy.

I'm with Soupdragon on the nipples-smearing.

"I am not aware of any strong evidence that c-section babies are known to be immunologically compromised by not having this bacterial exposure**"

Did you see this?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12801309?dopt=AbstractPlus

"CONCLUSION: There is a significant increase of the risk for developing symptoms of asthma and/or gastroenteritis that motivates admission for hospital care in CS children older than 1 year. It is speculated that a disturbed intestinal colonization pattern in CS children may be a common pathogenic factor."

Haven't read full text so not sure about the quality of the research.

This is the funniest childbirth thread

PMSL at lulu and at OP's "finger, not vagina"

Agree that this is hilarious...telling that it was a man that suggested this to you!!

Ive had 2 emergency CS's and agree that it would be both nigh on physically possible and the last thing on mind after delivery.

Surely even after a natural delivery without the physical CS issues this would be bottom of a to do list!!!

If you can reach your bits before the birth to inoculate your finger then also v. impressive...i dont recall my arm being long enough to wrap around my whale like proportions!

Anyway if it makes you feel better both my DS's are disgustingly healthy (age 1 and nearly 3). I didnt have immediate skin to skin either...they were both given to DH whilst i stiched up. I breast fed in recovery room and both of them were good feeders so no probs there.

Both my births were actually lovely despite the problems...staff were great, enjoy!

I?......what?.....where?

Only a bloke.......that's all I'm saying.

I am open mouthed wih horror and mirth at the idea of this shopkeeper standing in his shop advsing you to get your DH to rummage under the drapes in the middle of a medical procedure in order to stick his finger in your fanjo!

Isn't the problem with the 'rub it on you nipple' plan that you may not know if you have Strep B in your vagina if you are having a CS, and that whereas it may stay infection free inside your fanjo, outside in the air for an hour, it may well be less fresh, as it were. It isn't something I would have contemplated!