Just a quick question...It only just occurred to me

[turtle23]

7 months ago when I had DS nothing really went to plan. It wasn't until the other day that someone said two things to me which made me think. First, that they had to sign a consent for an assisted delivery (I didn't, are you sure you had to? I said.) Second they broke my waters without asking me. It was not ever in my plan, they had no "permission" and no emergency...was that against the rules?
Have tried to get a debrief once before but they cancelled on me due to staff shortages and I couldn't be bothered to make another appt. Wondering if I should?

depends how important it is to you?

my ex had to sign a form to say that she agreed to any procedure if it was deemed neccessary to save her life or babies life in the event she was unable to give consent at the time. I am not sure if this was common practice, my sister has had 5 kids and never had to sign anything but was ina different hospital in a different health authority?

if you feel you have been violated then there is no reason you should not go for your debrief. if no one ever complained things would never change but would get worse.

turtle23, you have a 7 month DS - why do you need to rake over the birth?? Birth plans sometimes don't go to plan. I didn't sign consent for assisted delivery, and i too had my waters broken. My birth plan went out the window.
Are you traumatised by the birth? What answers are you looking for? What do you want from your debrief? Personally, I'd put my energies into enjoying my child.

My birth experience was very traumatic and I spent 1 1/2 years in therapy due to what happened. I could have spent a lot of my time 'blaming' others - but for what? They did what they thought best for me and baby at the time. Yes everyones experiences and stuations are different.

maybe you're annoyed at my attitude? But believe me talking things over sometimes doesn't give the answers you want/need. One thing I learnt was to accept it and enjoy my child .

"They did what they thought best for me and baby at the time"

Sorry - but that's not always true.

Many midwives are very unhappy about the care women get in UK hospitals. They're not out to deliberately hurt women or give them a difficult time but they know that sometimes the decisions that are made about how a labour is managed are shaped by the demands of the labour ward on the night the woman is admitted and on the culture of the unit they work in and are not woman or baby centred.

To the OP - whether you give formal, signed consent for an assisted delivery depends on the protocol in your particular hospital. I wasn't asked to give formal consent when I had my forceps birth.

Re: breaking your waters - they shouldn't have done this unless there was a medical necessity for it. They certainly SHOULD NOT have done it without asking you and explaining the reasons for it. At our local hospital they have a 'labour ward forum' which is a regular meeting of doctors, midwives, and mothers who have given birth on the unit. Women get a chance to feed back on the care they got. Do they have anything like that at the hospital you gave birth at? It's so valuable to doctors and midwives to hear mothers reflecting on their birth experiences. Do you think it would help you to talk to staff in this way?

Anyway - you have a right to your feelings.

divedaisy-If I was that upset about it, I wouldn't have forgotten that I was going to go, etc. It really was more about if these things weren't right, then surely I should say something?
Thanks for your responses

divedaisy - you spent 1.5 yrs in therapy and someone else shouldn't rake over their birth??!!

Turtle23 you have every right to ask for the hospital to explain their policies and the way you were treated, believe me I understnd that. Good luck.

TheBlonde - I know what therapy can do and sometimes things are best left well alone because going over things doesn't help - it just makes it raw all over again. It doesn't change it - it just puts a different 'plaster' on it. Sometimes if something has been forgotten it's best left there, thats all I'm saying. Why stick your hand in the fire again to find out how your burn got there?? It wasn't all about the birth - it was because of the life experiences I had. They're personal to me. The birth of my son is the best thing that has ever happened to me!! Thanks for reminding me!!

Gabygirl - i like the idea of a forum - could be an interesting insight to why things are done!

Hey turtle!

I'm not sure if I ever did my birth story on here but I had a hideous four day induction that ended in an emergency c-section.

I had my waters artificially broken and did not have to sign a consent form. In fact, I didn't sign for anything apart from consent for the c-section, not that I remember it!

I'm gonna guess you want to be debriefed to enable you to do your job better? If so, I think it's a worthwhile thing to do. In terms of the hospital, I think they do what they need to do and they don't generally do assisted deliveries for the fun of it so you just have to trust that they (and you, by consenting) made the right call at the time and focus your energies on helping other people have more positive birth experiences.

Sounds like your therapy was potentially pretty rubbish then divedaisy. Please don't assume that everyone will have the same experience as you. Many thousands of women HAVE been helped by having the appropriate kind of therapy - sometimes that just means "talking" on an internet forum or speaking to a friend. You sound very bitter with a massive chip on your shoulder.

I had a lookover my notes with a midwife and it was very worthwhile.

My memories of the birth were very hazy (ended in emerg c/s) from the point the painkillers were injected

She told me various things that I just hadn't realised (inexperienced midwife broke my waters accidentally during internal examination, baby was in POP position hence failure to progress in labour, etc)

I have found it useful in thinking about what to expect for my second birth, due in new year.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder at all!! I don't have a problem with therapy - I'm only talking about my experiences with it, and the end result was it didn't change a thing; I recalled things I had forgotten and wished I hadn't remembered; and it hasn't altered my perceptions of it - all it did do was give me a person to talk to!

I never signed a consent form for assisted delivery (had forceps for DS2 who was one of my twins).

I have had my waters broken both times but neither time was it done without asking me. Second time I was begging them to do it as knew from first time that as soon as they did I could get the baby out! Neither time was it an emergency to break the waters, but it helped me greatly both times, but as I said, I was definitely asked (although first time I might have been told they were planning to and not actually asked), but I was happy for them to do it.

Hope that makes sense!

turtle23 - I had many of your concerns after the birth of my second dd. I am now three weeks away from my third. I didn't follow up my concerns at the time and I feel that I did suffer from post traumatic stress to a degree. I feel that I should have followed these things up but time went by and I gradually felt better, though I haven't forgotten almost three years on. I wish that I had gone through the details of the birth, as oppose to therapy.

I am now anxious to make sure that I am clear about everything this time round. I am probably more anxious about giving birth this time than with the previous two as a result of my last experience.

It may be that if you have another baby in the future you may wish that you had followed this up in some way.

I hope this helps.

i totally disagree with divedaisy, her own experience may mean that she feels going through your birth again is not the right thing, but IMO and IME it is very valuable to debrief your birth

you might not get answers

you might not get an apology

but you will most likely find it a catharic and helpful experience to be allowed to get it all out .

simply feeling someone has listened can often be enough to counter negative feelings

being told to get on with it and be grateful your baby is healthy is a surefire way to end up with PND IME

IMO the attitude of divedaisy "be grateful you're both alive, they know what's best for you", is the reason that we continue to hear so many negative birth stories and some staff are so poor. I hope you get some things cleared up and maybe as a result, someone else will have a more positive experience on this unit in the future (perhaps even yourself).

Since I'm pissing you all off, and I feel like I'm under personal attack over my opinion here, I'll leave you all to your own views.

Turtle I wish you well and hope you get the answers you need.

i am sorry you feel under attack, daisy. it was certainly not my intention

i volunteer for the birth trauma association and so many times women say that their upset and feelings about the birht were dismissed by people saying ; as long as your baby is ok, what does it matter.

and it does matter.

i am sorry for your experience, it was obviously terible if you had so much therapy. i am just surprised you feel that counselling in such circumstances is pointless

there is often no answer to be gained. no concrete reasons for what happened, but the simple fact of talking it thorugh, being listened to and having your feelings validated is so important in recovering from a trauma.

your post came across as 'counselling was crap for me so you are wasting your time for even thinking about it and being silly' i am sure that was not your intention

however,if someone is feeling upset and negative about their brith, the last thing that will be helpful is basically being told to stop whinging and get on with it

again, i am sorry for your experience, and sorry you feel attacked, but a little empathy goes a long way, especially when we have all been in teh same boat

Oh dear...sorry I asked!
I really am by no means traumatised, just that I keep hearing people say "oh yes, that happened to me at x hospital" and can't help but think that if nobody says anything, nothing will change. My ARM went like: (midwife doing exam) ouch that hurts a lot, what is that scraping feeling? MW: I'm breaking your waters(pop)dear Me: But I didn't ask you to MW:Well, dear, you'd been in labour so long I thought it might speed things up. That's all.

I didn't mean that councelling is pointless, rather than don't expect it to make things right. Unfortunately, when posting on a thread it is difficult to fully explain a point, and sometimes things can be interpreted differently. In no way have I ever said councelling is a waste of time, otherwise i'd have wasted 1.5 years in therapy, and I don't think I did!! I advocate therapy. There is a difference between getting a birth debrief and going through prescribed therapy. I know talking does help - but it doesn't change what happened, and sometime because the answers aren't given one can be left ... sorry, I don't know what the word is!!!

anyway, i'm off for a cheese toasty!

Let us know how you get on turtle. xx