I gave birth in my bathroom so why...

[foxytocin]

good one

Unmadam is right about statistics viewed on an individual basis - I was told the risk of one of my twins dying of twin to twin transfusion was "statistically insignificant" at 30 weeks - 2 weeks later he was dead. Insignificant maybe to the 399 who survived but not to the 1 in 400 who died.

Whether that justifies taking calculated risks with birth, I don't know. I guess we take calculated risks every day. But wouldn't it be lovely if we all got to at least feel we'd had some input in knowing and weighing up those relative risks without feeling patronised and pushed around (as many many women do)?

Even with ds3 (only 5 weeks old!) I have very mixed views about my crash cs. On the one hand the mw completely failed to spot his distress despite "continuous monitoring" which suggests to me there is bugger all point having all those bells and whistles unless someone is paying attention. On the other, once the problem was spotted he was out in 3 minutes. Who knows whether he was one of those babies put in a dangerous situation by the hospital experience, or one who was saved from disaster? Wish I knew.

Sorry am rambling now - as you were ....

I gave birth in my bathroom

well technically i was in the hallway as the paramedics tried to move me somewhere with easier acces and they and baby were in the bathroom

lino washes clean dont you know

and i get on my hsnds and knees and scrub mine with hot water, both befpore and after which i know for a fact does not happen in my hosp

ummmadam, I am surprised you allowed a midwife to be so rude to you. I requested a change of midwife when I realised she lied to me about the availability of home births. The lie and her putting every possible excuse in my way for wanting one.

I find the comments on that article so depressing. Why are people so judgemental about something they know so little about.

I've had two home births and loved them. Given the speed of my labours, it was also undoubtably the safest way for me to deliver.

I was thinking if they put the time and effort into creating a positive home birth culture that they put into treating women like needy idiots then I am sure risk could be reduced even further.

We are really lucky at our hosital, because they even give out an official hospital leaflet to all pregnant women in the Bounty pack thing you get at booking in, which says "Home or hospital birth? Your choice" or suchlike.

I don't think women in our neck of the woods have evolved differently from those 50 miles away. Unless there's something somebody isn't telling me.

Ps Home is cleaner. RIP special care babies in the E-coli ridden Luton unit.

The article is just the sort of thing to polarise opinion rather than open a reasonable debate. Strikes me as quite smug tbh. I've had two hospital births and two home births so can speak on both fronts!

Regardless of anyone's personal preference for a home birth or a hospital birth, and leaving aside any statistics, the woman in this programme seemed to me incredibly smug. Going on about how she'd had no pain relief so she would have been 'all right in the war'. And then she visited another woman who'd had her baby at home and made some comment about how 'well-behaved' that baby was - it was only a few weeks old, fgs - implying that this was something to do with the baby having been born at home

If I had another baby I would prob have it at home-I hated being surrounded by strangers, I hate hospitals as I have watched people die in them (and don't want to be thinking about death when giving birth!) and what gave me the be-jeepers more than anything in labour was the sound of other women in labour SCREAMING in pain-it made me so tense my labour was awful too, I just hated every second and wanted to be at home!

I had my first baby in hospital and the next two at home. I'm now expecting my fourth child and am unsure about what to do... I much preferred the home births - being able to go straight to my own bath and bed afterwards was lovely and the whole thing was just far less stressful. My first birth in hospital was the most unpleasant - but perhaps that's mainly because I had no idea what was going on and felt completely out of control, however it was still quite quick and without problems (apart from me needing an episiotomy). I would have gone straight for a home birth this time, but my third baby was quite big - 9lbs 4oz and there was a problem for a minute or two when his shoulders got stuck (although the excellent midwives sorted it out immediately and everything was fine). The midwives said i shouldn't give birth to a baby any bigger than that at home so I decided there and then to have the next one in hospital... but after reading articles such as the one here i'm having second thoughts... I really don't like hospitals - it's a difficult decision!

I am reading an Ina May book at the moment which is real hippy sht (which I am not generally into) but I do* think that her main point (which is that we have evolved to be able to give birth naturally and have the means and reserves to do so if we trust our bodies and minds) is probably true. Obviously, I talk about "normal" and therefore low-risk births here, but that is (or should be) the vast majority of them (despite walking upright and having big heads for our big brains!).

I agree that a 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 caesarian rate is unjustifiable and simply unecessary and that the horror stories that abound childbirth are
a) more likely to stick in our heads than good or normal delivery stories, increasing our fear and anxiety of the event and
b) we have, as a technologically advanced culture learned to fear childbirth and expect not to be able to manage it without artifical relief from pain. This is especially true in hospital births where pain relief is sometimes offered as if on a menu, as opposed to support and encouragement to relax, labour at our own pace and trust our bodies as this is what we were actually born to do.

Now - that's the theory, but do feel free to watch me fall on my own sword, screaming for an epidural when babe number 1 turns up in about two weeks time and I fail dismally to unleash my inner hippy and manage with low lights, crappy music and aromatherapy oils.

I agree, reluctant incubator. As I said on another thread, a lot depends on your state of mind on the day, and the position your baby gets into in your pelvis, etc.

I think the sensible approach is to have a go at home if you're happy doing that, and transfer at some point if it feels wrong or if the midwife gets too twitchy. You probably get more attentive midwifery care that way, and there is a definite link between having good professional help by your side at all times, and a good birth outcome.

Drugs are great if you are losing the plot because of the pain, believe me, but they are too often used instead of more appropriate techniques, such as giving all women a free TENS machine and birthing pool, with tuition in how to get the best out of both, as well as a skilled and cheerful midwife throughout the whole of labour.

reluctantincubator - I don't mind saying that I winced a bit when I read your comment about Spiritual Midwifery being 'hippy shit' (though I'm pleased you are finding the book useful!). I think it's actually very a serious minded, respectful book and not in the least bit flakey... you just need to look past the language.

The midwives and the mothers in that book do have faith in women's ability to labour well without medical help but they also have an understanding of the INNER resources that parents and midwives bring to the birthing process - that's the other message that's central to the book. It's not just about physically being able to do it - it's about mothers and midwives having the emotional and spiritual strength to overcome fear and mistrust which is a feature of so many modern birth experiences. The midwives and the mothers in the stories in Spiritual Midwifery are incredibly intuitive, stoical and patient. I found the stories very inspiring.

Best wishes for your forthcoming birth! Let us know how you get on!

soz gabygirl - I didn't intend to be disrespectful, I just wish there were a few more updated texts with less hippy-ish language but which essentially provided the same kind of encouragement and self-belief. Perhaps the hypnobirthing stuff does, (but I am afraid the cost of the course put me right off, so I will probably never know. I suppose visualisation is fair enough but for a person who has essentially eschewed religion and spiritualism, it can be difficult to get over the language traditionally associated with the techniques.

Luckily I am with an NHS midwife collective who do promote home births and encourage the use of education/confidence/self-belief, in giving birth without intervention, so we will see what happens, and I will post up the results. I do consider myself very lucky to have such great progressive woman-centred midwives. (Albany Midwives, SE London)

I have to say that listening to my Mum who is very much a "listen to your body it knows what to do" kind of woman has also been helpful. Fingers crossed!

Have you seen Ina May's Guide to Childbirth? That came out quite recently (well, a few years ago). Less talk of 'surges', 'yoni's' 'giving it some' and 'tripping out on the loving vibes'!

Lucky you to be with the Albany team. They're fab. I live about 5 miles to the south of you but had to pay heaps for an independent midwife to get what you're getting on the NHS.

I think that it can be a bit of a red herring linking the mental resources to birth with the ease of the birth though. I know that in a lot of cases a scared mother means that she is producing adrenaline which can slow down contractions, or the fear can increase the pain.

In my case though, I was perfectly capable of handling the contractions without pain relief using relaxation and breathing techniques, I was very active and upright, and I was in a supportive atmosphere with people that I trusted. So I would tick all the "inner strength boxes" (that I actually find quite patronising BTW). But in both my deliveries I had big problems getting my babies to descend. The first time around DD1 was OP and did not descend at all, the second time around DD2 was OA and I just got her to descend with superhuman effort and purple pushing (completely throwing my "don't let me push to hard/don't let the second stage go too quickly" fears out of the water! ).

We do have babies with big heads and we do have pelvises that a comprimise between walking upright and being able to get a baby out at all, and some women are going to pay the price for that. Evolution doesn't create bodies that are optimal, it only creates bodies that are good enough. As long as enough babies survived over the years to sustain the population, evolution wouldn't "care" how many babies or mothers died.

Natural birth techniques are great to allow as many mothers as possible to deliver without intenvention, and with as little pain as possible, but it really gets on my nerves when smug people (like the woman in the article) assume that they are the be all and end all of childbirth.

I would love to give birth at home with any future children. I have very quick labours and have had 2 pretty straightforward births in hospital, although the first resulted in a 3rd degree tear.
I think when I have my next child it would be safer to have it at home. The last labour was 5 hours from start to finish and so it would be nice to enjoy it in my own home and if anything were to go wrong i literally live next door to the hospital. That said Im not pregnant and not ttc so no3 will not be on the way for some time!

I had DS at home and hoping to have DC2 at home in a few weeks time. I avoid talking about homebirth in 'real life' as people tend to have such strong reactions to it - often along the lines of the comments on that article.

I don't think that homebirth is for every one, but I do really identify with what Snaf said further down the thread about regaining some confidence in our bodies to birth babies. 25% CS rate seems far too high.

I love this thread reading about all your experiences. Im seriously considering a HB for no.3 (if and when i get pg), after two straightforward deliveries in hospital.
dh strongly against it, but we have a birth centre 5 minutes away in one direction and major university hospital 10 minutes in the other, so i dont see a massive risk. Cant imagine anything nicer than giving birth in your house, having a bath or shower in your own bathroom, then putting on clean jim jams and going to bed with your baby. Those of you that have had a successful HB are so lucky

rofl at boffins travelodge comparison. Sadly we dont have one closer than the hospital but youre right, cleaner, better parking, more private, tea and cofee and a tv. Maybe travelodge are missing a niche in the market lol

"Natural birth techniques are great to allow as many mothers as possible to deliver without intenvention, and with as little pain as possible, but it really gets on my nerves when smug people (like the woman in the article) assume that they are the be all and end all of childbirth."

I'm not sure that she does really. I don't think anyone does! (or at least not anyone with half a brain)

I've had three difficult births for reasons that have everythin to do with the fact that I have giant babies and gestational diabetes - no amount of inner strength on my part would have made them any smaller or lowered my blood sugar. But I'm convinced that having midwifery care in labour at home from a midwife who was very mindful of the mind/body connection in childbirth made a big positive difference to the outcomes of two of my births.

I truly believe there is a niche in the market - travellodge could provide facilities for a comfortable maternity unit! All the health service would need to provide is personell, insurance and equipment - all of which are already needed for home births!

Had a planned home birth after 2 hospital ones. Had thought about it but as soon as midwife suggested it for baby 3 knew it was right decision. Much better than hosp although it was odd making small talk in bedroom to 2 midwives while panting and grunting! Was looked after better than in hosp (midwives more attentative). They were going to send me to hosp when they arrived because blood pressure up (goes up a lot when I'm in labour)but listened to me and monitored me to make sure everything ok and knew I knew warning signs to look out for so let me stay at home and everything was ok (as always is with my labours). They were excellent. Also it was lovely for ds1 and dd to be able to see baby before they went to school. If I have another baby would definitely try for home birth again.

Mosschops let's all choose a nice Travelodge near a teaching hospital and book it out for March and April for a sort of massive MN collective birthing experience for this entire thread.

Inflatable water pools in every room, free TENS machines all over the place, well stocked minibars with lovely juice cartons and Gok Wan on hand to make sure we keep looking good naked throughout, and to shout, "You can do it, girlfriend!" in all the most difficult moments.

RE the discussion of human anatomy, as far as I understand it, the human female pelvis has evolved to compromise between birth and walking/ running upright at speed. It's a non-ideal 'trade off', like the developmental point at which babys are delivered.