pushing out our babies, do we need someone to tell us how?

[happypoppy]

I am a student midwife and am interested because there is loads of research that shows that that midwives should not be 'directing' women how to/when to push (like taking big breath in and holding it etc..) as that actually might cause harm to the baby (it gets less oxygen) and may cause mothers to have worse tears.
We are taught that it is best to let a mother push if she wants but that the baby will be born anyway because of the expulsive contractions (and I have seen this quite a few times) but where I work most of the midwives still command the women HOW to push and that they should do it a certain way and often actually SHOUT at the women and tell them they are not pushing strong enough or in the wrong place!
This makes me a bit mad as I feel it undermines our confidence and belief in our ability as women to deliver our own babies!
And basically I was interested in finding out what you all think about it! (a waffly post, I'm not good at short and sweet!)

Frazzled - if you're really interested in having a doula you should look here. There may be registered doulas in your area. I wouldn't give birth without one.

interesting...i was talking to dp about this last night
basically I think most voluntary pushing is bollocks, however I only discovered this at the END of my son's birth when the involuntary contractions pushed him out without me having very much to do with it at all
it was the most incredible feeling of him really descending down the birth canal with great force
up until then I had believed I had to push him out, and was trying - which was painful and frustrating, and (I believe) resulted in some tearing
it seems ridiculous to think that we would need to be coached how to birth our young (in normal healthy circumstances)
a species that doesnt' know how to give birth is an a species heading for extinction

Re TheemormousT Well we might be heading for extinction anyway regardless of how we give birth.

We are a fairly unique species though, big brains, completely bipedal. Maternal death in other species is much higher and still birth in apes much more common. Ours are so low esp in western world because of healthcare interventions. The wait and see approach only works for some women, while the CS rate is probably too high, it has saved many mother and baby lives.

Also most people only have 2 or 3 children, they don't have the chance to optimise their performance on say 11 births.

Frazz there is a doula in your area who is a member on here, can't remember her username here though.

I think it might be Klaw? Someone on another thread mentioned her. Will get in touch with her to find out more. Thanks (sorry for the hijack-again!)

With my ds1 my body did what it needed to and I didn't push. Mw was fab and just let me get on with it.
With ds2 mw kept telling I could push now (I didn't because I felt no urge and I was terrified of tearing again). Silly woman told me she'd have to get the doctors involved if nothing had happened in the next half hour (it didn't) and then said she was going off to find consultant because I was taking so long. While she was gone my waters went. She rushed back in and advised me to really push now. I ignored her and went to sleep for 45 minutes! Then felt urge to push. Ds2 born on second (would have been born first but had cord round neck and disappeared again). No tears. Hurrah! Agpars 9s and 10s.
Looking back on it I felt bullied and hurried along by her and hated her being in the room. It was a calm quiet labour and I wasn't looking for "advice" but got plenty. We were on completely different wave-lengths.

Theochris and Turnip - I found out recently that the transfer rate in the local MLU is 25% for first-time mothers. I had my DD there, so I can confirm that they are very supportive of natural birth (upright positioning etc.) and have a very hands-off attitude.

So I reckon that it's difficult to get the complication rate much below that for first-timers.

With first 2 dc I was induced but when it came to the pushing stage my body went with the contractions. Two pushes with ds1 despite mw telling me to stop for fear of tearing. I couldn't stop. With ds2 1 push after I told mw I was going to push and she told me I wasn't and was about to examine me and caught ds2. Both mw's were great though.
With ds3 I gave birth in the car 3 weeks ago in the hospital car park. I resisted the urge to push earlier - I don't know how but we were 5 mins from hosp and I think I just knew if I got into hosp grounds I would feel safer but tbh I was so frightened when with every contraction I knew baby was coming. When in car park dp delivered baby almost instantly.

Wow mum2jr what an amazing story congrats on your baby.

yomella what a time, I have to say, and i am not anti mw at all that some do just teeat you as another woman in a line, and don't give a personal service. Your mw should have seen that you were copingand trusted you as you did.

You can always ask to change mw's you know ladies, I know this can be difficult actually during labour, but can be done especially if a clash of personality is hindering your labour.

Really interesting stories! I have worked with some fantastic midwives and some not so and I sometimes think some of the skills of a doula are things that midwives should do but have lost sight of a bit, what with technology and all. Its sad really.
Love the pushing stories.
It is really great to hear what you really think about how how you have babies!