Natural - v - Caesarean - a new thread

[JoolsToo]

sorry to be bossy but can we carry on here?

I'm for natural when possible

I'm all for the baby, but why does that mean I might as well have a csection? Even though I nearly did....
Anyway, only thing I'm interested in is Is my babe OK and Am I still alive? If answer to both is Yes than it's not gone to badly.

And let's not get me started on the formula v breastmilk thing....

Twiglett you're right - and nobody can tell either whether your children are breast or bottle fed either and nor do they care - but it hasn't stopped MANY discussions on the subject so I don't see why this is any less pertinent.

I think breast or bottle fed might be slightly more complicated though Jools because there is medical research that indicates that it does make a difference, and also even though its a suitable substitute formula is NOT exactly the same as breast milk and never will be (but still a valid choice of course)

however, whether my baby came out of the birth canal or through a hole in my stomach really only ever affects me (and that for a short time too)

I do think its relevant

Oh bums, forgot to change my name back .. this is Twiglett

I don't have strong feelings on this subject at all and as far as I'm concerned as long as a baby is delivered healthily and the mother is fine, it doesn't really matter how.

However, it does seem that it's considered 'best' to give birth vaginally and without any pain medication and it's as though if you manage this you deserve some sort of medal but if you use any sort of pain relief, God forbid an epidural or even a c-section you are less worthy of congratulations for delivering a healthy baby. I don't mean on MN by the way, I just mean I've come across that in RL. Even people who've had an epidural one time and then not the next - they make a big point of saying how they managed without and expect special treatment for it. Who bloody cares as long as the baby is delivered safely?

Well said Gobble

There's a great line in 'Best Friend's Guide to Pregnancy'

"There's no medals on the labour ward"

well that and also the "why have a home birth, if you want to have a home birth book a hotel room and wreck their sheets instead"

So its you who is scaring a poor little Puff Dragon!

I didn't scare you Puff, that was SuperDragon (not quite as cool as SOUPerciliousDragon IYKWIM?)

I'm a confused dragon now, will go away !

Never mind Puff .. I shall bring you string and ceiling wax and other fancy stuff and you'll soon feel better

I'm no expert but others on here have said there's an increased risk of PND (I'm going off what they have said - I confess I don't know, so I've actually learned something from this thread if it be true) so I still maintain its suitable subject to discuss and judging by the posts so do many others

I do think every woman's birth is important actually. It's no good saying to someone who had a horrible traumatic experience 'there there dear, it's such a small part of parenthood, go away and forget about it why don't you?' That's not on imo. Or to someone who had a great experience 'oh shut up, it's irrelevant.' Of course it's relevant! We wouldn't be having this discussion if it wasn't. And if everyone had always said 'well, what women want and their experience of childbirth isn't important' then we would all still be in stirrups with enemas etc. Thank goodness it is considered important. And yes, of course everyone wants a healthy baby and mother, sure but I think it's ok to discuss how we go about getting that generally. I do think that if an accepted reasonable c section rate is 10% then asking why it is now 23% is valid. I think where I'm coming from is emphatically not criticism of women for their choices but possibly criticism of the medical profession for the way they give women these choices and present the risks. And feeling that it's a shame women aren't supported better with the whole childbirth/post natal/new parenthood thing.

anyone got any good links - pupuce? mears? aloha? on CS and PND?

a traumatic birth of whatever nature can be a trigger for PND or PTSDw

I think the PND stats may well be linked to the fact that a large proportion of sections are performed when there are problems (either with the mother, the baby or during the labour) .. any of these would more likely be a cause of PND than the section per se

I hate these 'facts' that are banded about, there is seldom a reference material quoted and even when it is referenced there are anomolies in the methodology

(I don't disagree that people should discuss it .. ad nauseum if they wish .. just don't at heart understand why people feel so strongly about other people's birth choices)

I was going to say JT that I bet there is some research/evidence somewhere that says it's better to give birth vaginally (and probably without pain relief) because of x, y and z. There's research for bloody everything nowadays, you could very easily drive yourself mad trying to make any sort of decision going by research! Best to trust your own instincts sometimes I think!

I do think though, that surely if there is no indication for a section then it must be better/safer to deliver vaginally? I can't understand why someone would choose to have a section with no medical indication - fine if someone does but I don't understand it. It's major surgery after all.

GDG - agree totally.

Twigs - I don't feel strongly one way or the other - I started the thread initially cos people were still posting on the 'Bubble' one! and discussing it because of the comments made about c-sections- and I thought that thread should die (its being deleted now anyway!). Perhaps my title was ill-advised!

One good thing - this thread seems to have kept remarkably friendly

having gone through 2 sections I feel somewhat gypped that I've never actually experienced labour

I felt let down the first time I knew I had to have a section

But I don't think that was my feelings, it was forced on me by the pre-natal world where only vaginal labour and methods of pain control are discussed and there's this presumption that there are medals out there and how its some kind of test of your womanhood (my birth was harder than yours - well let me tell you about mine)

Im for vaginal delivery - both of my mine were born naturally. I didn't tear and although horribly painful at the time I recovered very quickly both times.

How a woman chooses to give birth is exactly that - HER choice. I cannot stand the thought that other women are so presumptious as to think that their choices would befit another person. I do think that a natural, quiet and unimpeded delivery is the best for my babies but that's my choice. Lets face it, in the long run a child will run the gauntlet of much more pressing problems, and a child couldn't have a worse start to life than greeting a miserable mummy who wasn't allowed to make her own choices regarding labour/delivery.

Why oh why are mothers so judgemental in this day and age? (see my mother and baby thread from wednesday for more on this subject )

Why is parenthood such a competition anyway? It's like that the whole time - from how you delivered (vaginal vs cs, no pain relief vs everything you could lay your hands on ), how you feed (breast vs bottle, jars vs homemade organic), whether they go to nursery or not/you work or not, whether they know numbers/colours/letters etc.....the list goes on. No person births or parents quite like the next person, we all do it our own way and 99% of the time we do what we do because we love our children more than anything in the whole world and we do what we think is right for them, for us and for our whole family.

At the end of the day, as long as you and your family are happy and you are happy with your choices, why should anyone else care?

well judging by your post GDG - I think I did a brilliant job [smug emoticon]

xxxxx

Well I've had 2 sections and couldn't care less how my kids got into the world.

FWIW they weren't elective section 1 was a result of 2 days of failed inductions and second one because ds2 was overdue and showed no signs of wanting to come out.

I tell everone that 'I'm too posh to push', and that 'I don't do labour', as I never had a twinge. It usually seems to inspire envy in others (prehaps they feel superior in private)

well said Gobbledy! As an ex PND sufferer whose confidence in my parenting ability is very fragile I think these topics should be approached with tact and respect. These things seem to stay at the door at many gatherings of mothers.

Lockets - snort