Experiences of Pethidine

[Sam29]

Hi, am due in 3 and a half weeks and have my fingers crossed for a water birth using gas and air to see me through.
However, need to have a Plan B just in case something hiccups and I can't have a water birth. Do not want to be bed bound so epidural not an option so am thinking of pethidine if I end up having to be on dry land! I know it can make the baby sleepy which concerns me as I want to get baby to breast asap but has anyone had any good / bad experiences of pethidine or tips on having it and having a relatively awake baby!

aloha, were you to have another you might well find that labour progresses naturally or faster than you thought, you're too late for drugs as mears says (assuming no problems which mean c section etc) and it's not as bad as you thought. I'm not saying that anyone should have to suffer pain if they don't want to, not at all, I don't think pain = good and drugs = bad, not at all, I just wonder whether circumstance may change your mind at some point. A c section just for this reason alone seems extreme to me. Imo, imo etc etc.

I haven't looked it up but I doubt that the rise in sections is due to women opting to have elective sections due to extreme fear of pain or the fear that there won't be any drugs available, surely? I'd have thought it is much more likely that the rise is due to medical management of labour or insurance or something rather than this being a women led thing. Anyone know, I really would be interested?

Just scanning this but those who had pethedine seem to mention that the baby was born quite quickly afterwards - muscles relaxing????. I know my daughter was born 2 hours after first pethedine (which I loved, btw). So, is there any evidence that it does speed up the birth at all?

I had 2 lots of pethadine for my first labour-I think-I was out of it for quite a while after that.I had to ask dh about the labour afterwards because I was a little out of it to remember much then.They gave me such a strong dose I was also talking a bit of gibberish although I realised I had and shut up after that.it made me sleep in between contractions and I woke up to the sound of the midwives telling me to push each time.So for my next labour I still wanted pain releif as they refused me an epidural on the grounds of my AS and previous GBS infection of first baby.So I asked if I could not have such a strong dose of pethadine and coped with the labour concentrating on my breathing and it was much more pleasant.And nice to recall exactly the whole labour.

I don't know if pethedine speeds up labour but it does have a relaxing effect more than other opiate analgesics - thus its use in gallstones/kidney stones etc - relaxes the tubes and allows the stone to pass.

I think it was having my waters broken that hastened my labours rather than the pethidine in itself. The ctx got so painful after ARM that I was desperate for pain relief. But if I'd known that ARM could speed up labour so much and that I was so close to delivery I'd not have bothered with pethidine.

Someone I know pointed out that it's pretty much impossible to say anything speeds up labour because you can't compare the same woman giving birth with that intervention or without it, IYSWIM.

I had morphine for both my labours - just one dose and it helped. I found gas and air didn't work - made me nauseous and I couldn't stand faffing around with the mask. First labour I hung on for as long as possible till there was no options left and then had the dose - baby was born about 3 hours later. It did make me a bit dreamy but I was very tired anyway. Don't think it slowed labour down and I managed to deliver fine. However I found I didn't sleep well for about a week afterwards.

2nd time I think because I knew what to expect and my body had the drug before the experience was much better. I had the morphine again late on in labour but it had hardly time to take effect before baby was born. I had no bad side effects this time.

When you have the waters broken,which I did in both my labours when the baby's head was right at the cervix and ready to be delivered, it simply allows the second stage to progress. I think Jaytree you were in transition when you couldn't speak as that happened to me. The second stage contractions take your body over and are all about expulsion not dilation so feel very strong (and painful!)

CAM, literature I read suggested that pethidine works in only 20-30% of cases and I didn't fancy the side effects for dd either. By saying I "only" had an epidural I meant that I had no other form of pain relief during my long labour. my sciatic pain and vomiting were the two worst aspects of my labour and I was glad to have had an epidural because it meant I could be conscious during my emergency c-section. I was the one who asked for an epidural and still feel the same about pethidine. each to their own.

Mears, I was definitely not having a go at you. Your posts always seem a model of sanity. I'd much rather have you attend a birth of any child of mine than to have another version of me there! However, I don't think all midwives share your view. There do seem to be some very militant, anti-pain relief enthusiasts out there (I read quite a bit of the AIMS site and it made me shake with anger - there is a bit describing midwives who offer pain relief as not having 'dealt with their own issues around pain' - when it's clearly not their issues we are talking about!). I personally know of three women (I may be unusual but this is true) who opted for private elective caesarians because they did not want to face the possibility of hours and hours of unrelieved pain. And I do feel the same. If I felt genuinely confident that I would not face this scenario - so sue me, I don't enjoy pain! - I might think of an alternative to a cs. I understand that if the head is visible it is quite probably too late for an epidural (!) but that's not always the case. Indeed on the AIMS website one midwife describes trying to persuade women not to have one by telling them that they are further on than they are and that 'they are doing well'. I can't imagine how a woman in pain and in labour could have the strength fight this kind of thing - which I consider to be bullying. I think it is wrong and patronising to assume a woman doesn't know what she wants. There seems to be a quite frequent infantalising of women who are pregnant or giving birth - think of all those maternity dresses with virginal prints Peter Pan collars that women had to wear not so long ago. I think refusing/discouraging pain relief falls into the same category. If I asked my dentist for pain relief, I don't think I'd be too impressed if he refused, saying I was 'doing very well'. I'm not sure why birth is different. I certainly think if more women could go into birth thinking their wishes would be respected - whether those wishes are for full and total pain control (me, please) or for active birth, or water birth or whatever, then this could only be good thing.

Ps, I know all the arguments about intervention, but I'd much prefer intervention to pain, myself.

aloha - my dentist (somewhere I used to live) once said I didn't need anaesthetic because the filling was so small - AND I BELIEVED HIM! it wasn't too bad, but afterwards I did wonder who it was all about....
control is the right word - whether you opt for all or nothing

I agree entirely with your sentiments that it is the woman's choice regarding her need for pain relief. The beliefs on AIMS website are not the majority views of midwives - it is infact a minority group. I have to say that a number of midwives that I work with are very intervenionist and encourage epidurals before trying other things such as massage, birthing ball or pool. They would do well to find out more about non-intervention in the first place. However, I do not believe there are many midwives out there who would deliberately deny a woman an epidural if that was her explicit request unless the birth was imminent or the anaesthetist was unavailable. It is also breaching the midwives rules and code of practice to lie to a woman about her progress. To deny women requested pain relief is opening yourself up to potential litigation.
I do like to read your posts Aloha because you always give me something to think about. What you need is a midwife you can totally trust to ensure your wishes are followed. There are lots of us out there who thrive on helping women achieve the experience they want - with or without epidurals.

Aloha, I really share your sentiments about pain! I had a lovely epidural with DD1 but had to fight quite hard to get it (midwife very resistant in a kindly way, kept telling me how well I was doing, etc), then had to wait 2 hours - practically out of my mind by this point - because both anaesthetists were busy with emergencies. As Mears says, this does seem to be the number one reason why women may not get their epidural and this is a BIG worry for me at present, with 3 months to go till birth of number two. If I could be sure of getting an epidural if I need one, I'd be really looking forward to the birth, but as it is I'm full of anxiety. I know the second one is supposed to be easier so I may not need pain relief this time, blah, blah, but as other people have been saying, the key word is control - I want to be able to make my own choice, not have it forced on me.

Can I just say that I was somebody who asked for an eipdural during each of my labours. Both times, I was quite rightly told that I was too far along to have one and both times I was absolutely delighted with the outcome. I don't know anyone who wishes they had had an epidural after the event.

Well well, we seem to be back to the anti-pain relief smugness problem yet again. It's a real shame some women can't accept that what's right for them would be completely wrong for someone else and instead assume that their experience is in someway superior. I personally would definitely have regreted not getting an epidural and I've spoken to lots of women who did miss out for one reason or another and suffered horribly as a result. My point was about being able to choose, rather than having a decision forced on me, which if you think about it is pretty hard to argue with.

Glad to know they are a minority group! Frightened the life out of me.

bells2, I know a number of women who wish they'd had epidurals after the event, one in particular was told because her labour was 'only' in her back it wasn't really worth it! (ie it was seen as some sort of lower-grade pain)

I had a backache labour....... OUCH! I screamed for an epidural, but they kept telling me I was doing fine until eventually they told me it was too late for one!!!! I was raging!

mum2toby, it's odd isn't it? I suppose belly labours are more 'usual' so might be what the midwives themselves have experienced...

I had an epidural last time (although as I mentioned previously I was taken off it before the second stage) and I am really hoping I don't need one this time round. It was good to have some rest which the epidural did give me but after a few hours I was so fed up just lying on the bed. I found my left leg acutally hurt from being numb (if that makes sense!) and that was more uncomfortable than the pain I had with the contractions. I also realise I had diamorphine not pethidine! Very nice it was too and I think I will have that again if I find I'm in too much pain. I also really enjoyed the gas and air - I had a mouth piece that I could also chew on which was also very handy. Mmmm, I'm sounding like a bit of a junky here!!
What I really want though is not to be induced. I want to feel my contractions and timing them and wondering whether I should go to hospital yet and so on.
Oh and Bundle I too have had 4 fillings without anathestic as I was told they were very shallow and it all honesty it hurt less, I got over it much quicker then I did when I had a filling with anathestic. Maybe I have a pain fetish (how do you do the smiley with the teeth showing?)

And I have to say in defense of midwives - the ones I had were fantastic. They showed me so much respect, were very encouraging and made my stay in hospital very enjoyable.

that's good to hear forest - the smiley with the teeth is : followed by O (capital letter o)

Jodiesmum, I certainly wasn't trying to claim any sort of superiority for not having an epidural just that in my case, as became immediately clear, I really was too far gone. Like everyone else I know who had a straightforward delivery without an epidural, I was delighted with the outcome simply because I could remain mobile, things progressed quickly and I was up and about immediately.. I guess it just so happens that I don't know anyone who had a vaginal delivery which was so protracted and difficult that they really felt that with hindsight, they would have wanted an epidural. Of course, that's not to say that all the people who did have an epidural weren't pleased too with their outcome.

I have to say I don't understand why everyone thinks you are smug, superior, look down on people, think everyone should do it your way etc when they are happy with the outcome of their birth. Previous messages where people have mentioned they are happy with their birth choices which didn't involve drugs or epidurals seem to get jumped on. Why are people so touchy? They haven't mentioned their way was best just that it was for them.