Would you want your midwife to have experienced pregnancy and childbirth?

[Moomina]

Following on from a couple of comments on another thread, and a conversation I had today with a friend - in real life! - do you think it makes a difference if midwives are also mothers?

WWW, I know you love him dearly, but shove a pineapple up his bum and suggest he breathes it out.

MI! Har har har har!

While only being surrounded by people who had passed their own pinapple without intervention natch!

For me the most important thing is for the MW to respect the choices made by the labouring mother re: pain relief and (where possible) intervention. I am pro analgesia, I accept that different women have varying 'pain thresholds' and that some can and choose to experience a 'natural' labour. I am not one of them and wish to avail myself of all that modern pharmacology can provide. During my first labour, after sitting in evening rush hour traffic for an hour to get to hospital I was examined by a MW who declared that I should go home and 'express my pain'. I was deeply unimpressed and hailed a passing ob who had a look, said " 3cm dilated, I can rupture the membranes and you'll probably have a baby by midnight" Took him up on his offer and we did!
Drugs and intervention do it for me everytime

Can I clarify what Odent has said... it's a tad out of context here !
He teaches birth physiology where (and I don't want to repeat the whole course!) a woman's neo cortex is not stimulated (by language, light,....) and it allows her NOT to release adrenalin (which hinders the production of oxytocyn, the hormone that makes the uterus contracts).
For a woman to labour in ideal setting she should be supported with great privacy (to avoid stimulating the neo cortex) by another woman. Odent believes that only/mainly women who have had natural births will not bring in fear to the labouring woman. He feels fear and anxiety are easily transmitted to the woman.
BTW - before I hear any of you say "yeah and he is against men in the delivery room and he is a blxxdy man, so is he the only one allowed." I would say that when he does home births (as he still does) he only enters the room for the delivery of the baby if needed. He doesn't stay in the room where the labouring woman is.

As doulas we do wonder if women who are not mothers could be doulas.... the vast majority of us are mothers.

thanks www
My midwife told me I had to keep my mouth around the gas and air pipe while breathing out, too.... didn't realise at the time she was trying to muffle my screams because apparently I'd nearly burst her eardrum. Think her technique was much better than telling a labouring woman to shut up.

No. Every pregnancy and labour is unique and I think having given birth is not essential although empathy, clinical knowledge, communication skills etc are. How do people feel about seeing male doctors for (horrible expression) women's things?

No - think it is entirely down to the personality of the midwife - when I was pg with dd there was one midwife in the team who I just warmed to straight away and she was only early 20's with no children - she was the most empathetic of all of them and was fantastic when I was having problems with breastfeeding initially. If it hadn't been for her I would probably have given up but I went on to successfully bfeed for 12mths.

Midwives are either good or bad, I think, regardless of whether they have had their own children but however much studying health visitors have done, nothing can beat good old fashioned experience when it comes to the hundreds of little hurdles you come across with babies and small children!

I'm curious pupuce. Surely the sensation of pain during labour would stimulate the production of Adrenalin, thus hindering the release of Oxytocyn, anyway? Even with minimal outside stimulation of the neo-cortex.

My midwife who actually delivered DD was really lovely. She had only recently got married and had no children - yet, but was really caring and calming and all the things I needed her to be.

I honestly think it is more important that the person is a truly caring person who can empathise. I could never have understood the pain of childbirth before experiencing it, but then good nurses are able to care for people with cancer/broken backs/paralysis, whatever without 'knowing' what it feels like... There are unfortunately some midwives who do not fit this description - several of whom I came across as part of my care (I saw 20 midwives in total, only 5 of whom I would class as caring and even interested in me/the baby)

I take my hat of to good midwives, nurses, caring professionals. I must admit if I had seen people in such agony it would have put me right off doing it myself! But then, that is why I am one of the few members of my family not in the caring professions - too soft hearted (and too much of a wimp).

I liked the fact that mine had a child and had breastfed, but it was more because it seemed to have made her so passionate and excited about birth.

My friend had a male midwife and she liked the fact that he was all science and text book, rather than reliving his own birth experience each time.

Horses for courses then...

I don't agree that midwives are better if they have had children. I was bloody good before I had babies

I had straightforward enjoyable birth and loved breastfeeding. I have to ensure that that experience does not cloud my judgement when giving information.

However I have noticed that women trust me more because I have had children although my advice is probably the same.

My ds was delivered by a male student midwife.

well i'd like to say 'no it shouldnt matter' but frankly, when one of my midwifes said -at the 'crowning'part " they said in the book this may feel like a football coming out" i really want to hit her!! quoting books at me! and it was more like a bloody beach ball....so i'd rather she'd been there herself, IMO. or at least had some more people skills than that daft cow......

i had a male midwife for the birth of dd1 - he was brilliant. he said he had 4 kids himself and had nothing but admiration for women having babies. dont think dh was all that keen tho. for 3rd baby my midwife had left the room when ds decided to make an appearance - dh had one hand under me in a rugby scrum like position and one foot round the door frantically trying to attract someone's attention - so ds was delivered by hospitals senior obstetrician as he happened to be walking past. wouldnt have cared if he'd been the cleaner to be honest - dh kept telling me to cross my legs till someone came.

Ideally, yes I would like the person who is taking care of me during pregnancy, labour and birth to have first hand personal experience of it. More from an empathetic p.o.v. really rather than a capability/knowledge p.o.v. I'd like to feel that my primary carer during labour has felt the same sort of worries/insecurities and emotions as I'm going through, rather than been told to expect it by a lecturer/textbook. Although having said that I'm aware that labours and births are very individual and just because your midwife has had children does not been that she has had the same sort of feelings or indeed, the same sort of labour.

Waffling, but I hope someone can see through my foggy post !

Thanks for clarifying that about Michel Odent, Pupuce. I've always liked his methods and found the comments I was hearing a bit strange.

I was a midwife but left as I couldn't/wasn't allowed to do my job properly (supporting the mother) but was instead expected to become some sort of CTG technician and notekeeper.

Who cares about the mother as long as your notes are up to date and the CTG has a perfectly recorded heartbeat. (Cynical cackle)!

My 'comment' was sparked by a discussion I have been having (or am trying to have) on another board, regarding a review of Odent in Practising Midwife, talking about the idea that 'midwives should be chosen from among the ranks of women who have had an "undisturbed birth with no medication"' Unfortunately I can't find a link for the review.

I'm well aware it's out of context. I was simply referring to a personal conversation I have had recently and thought it might be an interesting jumping-off point for a discussion about what we expect from those who attend us during pg and birth. Sorry if some of you feel it was inappropriate.

No, I don't think it's inappropriate - it's good to discuss these things. I was suprised about what I was hearing as I've always had alot of time for him. However, even though it might be ideal to have a midwife who'd experienced normal, drug free birth (and I can see the philosophy behind that) I think he'd be hard pushed to find enough such midwives. But then - maybe that's his point - it's all become so medicalised that what we see as a "normal" birth is actually a technically managed one.
Personally, I don't mind the fact that I ended with a caesarean - I got a healthy baby from it and felt fine. I don't think this would interfere in my ability to care for another Mum though - indeed there's nobody more gobby than me when it comes to women having true choice in their maternity care.

Mandy

I can see the rationale behind it too, in a way, but it is unrealistic, isn't it? And we have to deal with realities. Also - whilst being a supporter of 'natural' birth - I had quite a managed birth and yet still view it as a positive experience because of the way I was treated by my midwife (during labour and delivery at least, post-partum is a different story!)

I just worry that theories/ideas such as this set up a distinction between 'successful' and 'unsuccessful' birth experiences that may be quite alienating and unhelpful to a lot of women. i.e. there's a right way and a wrong way to do this and you should be striving to achieve a totally non-managed birth, otherwise you have somehow 'failed'. It is similar to the breastfeeding/bottlefeeding argument which causes so much unecessary worry and hurt for so many women, isn't it?

Definitely no one right way to give birth. When a Mum has given birth she has achieved something amazing and needs to be told so. I hate the idea that if you don't get the natural, drug free etc etc birth you want then you have somehow failed as a woman. No woman should be made to feel like that. I'd have loved a homebirth but it just didn't happen - I have no regrets though.

No - having done something does not necessarily enhance your ability to empathise with others doing it. The best midwife I know has never had children of her own, and the second best one I had was a 50 year old bearded, overweight, Arsenal loving man (though he did have 4 kids).

Moomina - I simply want to put his quote in context as plenty of people think he is a nutter so the least I can do is make sure he is not mis-quoted (well kind of!) - it would be to easy to judge without knowing why he was saying it.

Bubble - pain is not necessarily a fear thing.... so the pain does NOT make you release adrenalin however if you do get anxious or scared in labour (for example you arrive in hospital) you can slow down your labour as you release adrenalin.
Hope that helps.