UCH v Whittington pls reply if diabetic or other high risk or prolonged post-natal stay

[tigger15]

I'm trying to decide where to have the next one (rather premature as not yet pg but believe in being prepared - the boy scouts have nothing on me!!!)

DS was born in St Mary's by emcs and although it is still my closest hospital owing to pretty bad post-natal experience and near certainty of another cs I think psychologically it would be better for me to be somewhere else.

So I've narrowed the choice down to the 2 above based on distance to home and work.

These are pros and cons of both.

Both say they encourage you to go to 40wks if diabetic and will only remove (which means cs for me) earlier if necessary for baby or mother.

UCH requires hba1c of 6.0, whittington of 7.0

Whittington has NHS acupuncture (good method of permitted induction for me)

UCH is 40mins journey from home (by tube) and 20 mins from work. Whittington is about 1hour from both.

Whittington say you have to have CFM, no telemetric facility and no birth centre. UCH say CFM but are introducing room on their new labour ward which is meant to be natural option for high risk mothers.

So based on this it's pretty much 50/50.

Could anyone who's been at either please tell me their experiences. In particular what was the post-natal care like (as I'm guaranteed at least 24 hours of it). If you're diabetic did they separate you from your baby at any point for routine monitoring or only if something was actually wrong? Did they feed formula to your baby cos of low blood sugar and did they remain with you while this was going on? Anything else which should affect my decision?

All comments appreciated.

bump

Whittington every time!

Postnatal care hit and miss at both. Not many hospitals (if any) have great PN care.

UCH's room... probably not likely until they move to the new unit, opening date constantly moving backwards.

Whit: I'd imagine you can negotiate the CFM after all it is your choice and right not to be continually monitored. It may not have a birthing unit but it is still a good hospital to give birth in. I don't imagine you'd be able to use the BBC (Bloomsbury Birthing Centre) at UCH if you're deemed high risk.

Neither hospital should routinely separate you from your baby unless there is a clear, medical reason. You can state that you don't want to be separated in your birth plan.

With regards to formula no one should feed your baby without your express consent.

I've worked in both hospitals and prefer the Whit.

I did hear from a friend who had two (CS) at UCH that she did not have a good experience there - she was bullied into moving round before she felt ready and in a lot of pain - and that there were a number of ladies there handcuffed to wardens as it is the closest hospital to HMP Holloway, which made for an interesting atmosphere on the ward during her stay. She was pretty scathing about the care and standards in general postnatally although acknowledged the labour/emergency cS was handled fine. Sorry this is not a personal experience but she is a friend and I did talk to her directly about it.

Thanks a lot.

Just to be clear, my no. 1 aim is healthy mother and baby, my no. 2 aim is happy mother. Since I had an awful time recovering from my 1st cs and hated my time in hospital I see a VBAC as the best way to get out of there ASAP.

However, knowing that things rarely go the way you want I do need to be sure that I can actually bear the hospital post-natally.

I take the point about negotiation but when you're high risk on 2 separate grounds it gets difficult to argue even using all the articles I've seen people cite on here.

Also although supposedly things shouldn't happen without your express consent, when you've had 24 hours of failed induction, a cs and lots of post-natal hormones, I find I'm not in my best state to argue anything. Hence why it's important for me to have things confirmed beforehand.

The assurance I got from UCH was BBC unlikely although I could argue it but that the room on the ward would be a possibility. Since I'm not preganant yet chances are higher that they might have moved by the time it's an issue.

I do like the sound of the whittington apart from people who've told me of awful post-natal care and the hour minimum commute.

Def not UCH. I bailed on UCH half way through my high risk pg when they failed to diagnose my gestational diabetes and despite my being on the high risk register failed to get me in contact with a midwife (I saw a health care assistant every time).

I just didn't trust them to give me the care I wanted (fourth pg but first birth hence my sense of the stakes being very high). I am also, two years on, waiting for the results of my blood test for chickenpox (I was exposed while PG so they tested me for immunity and after 30 calls to find out what the answer was I gave up...)

My sister had a CS at UCH last year which was mainly ES but where there were also concerns about the baby which had not appeared to be developing normally. They tried to chuck her out within 24 hours - not only before she was at all ready (and she was going back to an empty house so should not have been discharged so early) but also before they had any idea that the baby was ok (as it turned out, she was).

Can't comment on the Whittington but I just wanted to post to say at UCH you're not even guaranteed 24 hours of post natal care

I had all my T1 pre natal care at the Whittington and in a way they were good - 24 hr access to diabetes nurses etc, but I found the consultants well agressive and made me cry (and that was with hbA1cs of 5.8), so much so that I moved in order to be able to change my care.

Bimblin that sounds awful. You're making me think maybe I should reconsider st mary's, despite the 39 week limit and cfm from word go so more or less guaranteed cs, as the diabetic consultant was the nicest one I 've had in 25 years of being T1. I asked if I could have him permanently.

Where did you transfer to out of interest?

What were they particularly aggressive about out of interest? If you don't want to do this in public, I'm happy to CAT you.

I used to be less 'compliant' as they call it, I also found out I was getting rapidly deteriorating retinopathy at about 4 months pregnant and the Whittington said they didn't know what to suggest. One of the consultants saw in my notes from five years previously that I used to smoke, and drink (when I was young, basically, obviously gave up well before being pg), and started ranting at me saying that I obviously wasn't trying hard enough, that she didn't know why people like me had children..I was totally shocked and cried my eyes out.
I transferred my eye care to Moorfields, who actually knew what they were doing, and moved my diabetes care to Bath where my parents were - and they considered me a model patient with an hba1c of 5.8.
I think I got very unlucky with one consultant but I have certainly never wanted to go back.

Bimblin - that is terrible - I am very
of hba1c of 5.8. Mine is currently around 7 and this is third pregancy and they have been fine with me. Keeping such a low hbaic ( I was lower in previous pregnancies) is such hard work and I always felt I was teetering on the edge of hypo.

Tigger - I have no experience of either of the hospitals but I am interested in you trying VBAC and being diabetic. I was induced at 36 weeks with DD as I had pre eclampsia and I had emergency CS with DS at 37 weeks as I had PE again and baby was in distress - I was presuming this one would be CS and was thinking that elactive would be preferable to very medical induction which could result in emergency CS. I was out on day 3 after a CS with DS. I was in until day 11 with DD after complicated 'natural' delivery.

I would go with who you feel most comfrotable with as I think on the day the policies sometimes go out the window in an emergnacy situation e.g they forgot the sliding scale with DS and that was fine with me. They also let me have a private room that generally is against their policy ofr new diabetic mums.

Hi Bojangles, I think I remember you from a similar thread last year.

I know "natural" can go far worse but I had a really bad reaction to last cs still feeling pain 9 months after and I really don't want to go through that again. I know people say it gets better with each one but still...

Bimblin that's really awful and you should complain to them although I know how difficult that is. St Mary's did warn me that pregnancy could cause eye and kidney complications (unconnected to control) and they sent me for regular screenings for eyes even though I was lucky and nothing went wrong. To say they don't know what to do is pretty useless and with a hba1c of that level they should have been bowing down to you not criticising.

Anyway all food for thought and I'm as undecided as when I started this thread.

I had ds at the whittington but 7 years ago now. I liked the consultant, he had a reputation for being abrupt but I did not have a problem with him.
I had high blood pressure and low platelet count so went in the day before my edd to be induced, ended up with VERY high BP (210/195) & very low platelet count (38 I think) so had full blown sudden onset pre-eclampsia and a crash emergency CS.
My post-natal care was excellent, they kept me down in the recovery room for 24hours and then up to the post natal ward.
The ward was hideously overcrowded but the midwives were fantastic, they had time to help with BF, brought baby bath to you so you could have a lesson in that, cuddled your baby while you had a shower etc

There are a lot of really lovely consultants at the Whit (I've met most of them now I think).

I have been in most of the London hospitals now and I still hold to the Whit being one of my top hospitals for birth.

I know I just had a bad experience. What I have taken from it is to stick to a good consultant when you find one and not worry too much about details. My consultant now is lovely and is for example happy to answer random emails that I send him when I have concerns (I went on to have dc 2) and it makes a massive difference to have trust in him. I am now about to go on the pump but will still have the same consultant for pregnancy care if I choose to have dc3 and I find that most reassuring. And I would trust my Moorfields consultant with my life as he saved my eyesight and I still love him to bits. I shudder when I go through Archway and see the Whittington. So in conclusion, if you have a good doc, keep them!

i had good care antenatally & intrapartum at both st mary's & the homerton (type 2 diabetes). the aftercare was a bit crap in both places but i think that's par for the course in london. we actually lived in hackney when i gave birth at st mary's & the commuting was a big pain so if i were you i'd want to minimise that.

but the drs at st mary's(steve robinson & mr teoh) were fantastic, they really looked out for me. i didn't have quite such a good relationship with the team at the homerton, but they looked after me very well.

Tigger, I don't know either of the hospitals either, but just wanted to offer support/my opinion
I was happy with the care I had a Kings, and looking forward to having ds2 there in 2 months time.
I learnt alot from my cs with ds1, (which I was very happy with). I am hoping that for example I will personally take more control of my diabetes to stabilise it better, post natally, and thus be allowed home earlier.
Have you made a decision yet/ managed to find out more info to enable you to make a decision ?

I can't comment on the level of specialist care available at either hospital, but I think in terms of after care it's much the muchness when you're talking about London hospitals and post-natal care. I had a dreadful experience at the Royal Free and another at the Homerton, and this time had also thought about either UCH or the Whittington (have had both good and bad experiences at both hospitals but not on the maternity ward!).

In the end, I chose UCH based purely on anecdotal stories from my neighbour and my GP who had both had good experiences giving birth there. I don't hold out much hope that it will be idyllic post-natally, as all London hospitals seem to be understaffed and a bit grubby, but so far, the antenatal care has been excellent - lovely, attentive midwives who have been absolutely fantastic with getting me weekly physio appointments for my SPD right from the word go and have been shit hot about testing for possible gestational diabetes (I'm high risk for it). The booking in mdiwfe even gave me her mobile number and email address in case I had any questions outside of office hours. They have also been very supportive of my decision to try for a VBAC, although they aren't keen on me doing it at the BBC (I am still fighting away on this issue though, and see a consultant again to discuss next month )

We'll see...

I used to hate UCH after they were especially brutal to me over a m/c 4 years ago but went there for a CVS test a couple of weeks ago and they were amazing.

DS was born in the Whittington and I plan to have no 2 there (it seemed the obvious thing to do because he was also conceived in there via IUI ).

I went there today for my booking in and felt they listened to all my worries about birth - had an emergency c-section and a bit scared of giving birth now.

They took me seriously and I am seeing the consultant next week.

I really like the Whittington, though it is a bit scruffy. The staff try very hard and it is also extremely local for me, which I think is useful.

Lots of my friends have used it and most people are positive about the standard of care there.

I know nothing about the Whittington, but just had my third baby at UCH a couple of weeks ago. I had my second at St Mary's and also had a dire experience so changed to UCH for this last one.

Antenatally, I found the care better than St Mary's. I do not have diabetes, but do have a thyroid problem which is the same clinic at UCH so saw the same consultants that you would. I found them very good. I also have high BMI which means they tried to do extra scans, tests etc most of which I refused, but they did seem up on what they should be doing.

Medically, the birth was ok. But I also though it was at St Mary's. Postnatally, it was as bad as St Mary's. I really think this is true of all London hospitals - totally understaffed and overfull.

However, a couple of things going for it: they will definately have moved into the new building by the time you have a baby as you are not even pg yet and they are talking about November. I know that new facilities are not the be-all and end-all, but postnatally it can make a big difference to how you feel if your surroundings are nice, not crowded, not grotty etc. Also, UCH has one of the best neonatal units in the country. I had not thouhgt I would need it, but my baby ended up on SCBU for a week and I was glad I was at that hospital. You just never know. Lastly, if you plan to breastfeed, I suprisingly found them quite good at UCH. I am a bf counsellor so did not need their help as such, but really did notice over the week that I was back and forth to SCBU as well as when I was on the ward that they were better than I expected (though not perfect by any means).

Just a few things to consider.

Thanks for the new comments. At the moment I'm swinging more towards UCH on the grounds of proximity. It'll be easier to get to my antenatal appointments and once I'm in (which will be for a minimum of 24 hours even if I achieve a vb) it will be easier for my family to visit and protect me from hospital staff.

That's encouraging about the breast feeding. I had a friend who went there and she learnt a lot but was unfortunately in for over a week so that might have had something to do with it.

Hi, I am 38-weeks pregnant and due to have my baby at UCLH but by gosh after reading this thread, i have to say I am very sceptical on the treatment labour/birth/PN I will receive! I am thinking about transferring to Whittington - do you think it's a good idea?

Hi,

I don't know if you're diabetic or have any other risk factor which is likely to prolong your stay but if not you may well be out of there within 6 hours of birth meaning that you will not experience much of the post-natal care which is what people complain of.

Generally switching at such a late stage is inadvisable as the NHS takes a while to get itself into gear and may lose crucial notes at what could be a critical stage. So you have the danger of creating a worse situation.

Wherever you go you'll get bad reviews and similarly there will be the lucky few or many who have a good experience. Bit random but it may be you.

hi there

this is my first baby (14th week) and i had chosen to go for barnet, but unfortunately got chase farm. i still thought i will go ahead with it and try it out. i am not happy with the hosp and want to change to either UCH or Whittington. i have heard both good and bad reviews abt both...cant decide.

any suggestions?

I'm one of the lucky ones who got given a private room by whit midwives - think they felt sorry for me after 3 day induction followed by em c sec! Am now 38 weeks pregnant again and hoping for vbac there depending on blood pressure etc.
I know my post natal care was def the exception but generally I can't rate Whittington highly enough. The level of care I have received is second to none. My consultant has a wonderful bedside manner and she has really listened and supported me.

Have also had good feedback from friends who went to UCH (though all straight forward births not high risk preg) I'm sure that's a great hospital too.

Good luck!