if have/had breech baby, what is safest, natural/ceserean birth?

[bigboydiditandranaway]

Baby is breech at the moment(36wks)although baby may still change position, what is best, natural/ceserean birth. mw has told me they will offer to turn the baby and a natural birth, what do u think?

Ah I feel for you - DS was breech this morning (I'm 35+6) but he turned this evening. May I suggest a touch of crawling round the floors?

If you have a competent and confident midwife a breech baby is not necessarily a problem - though you have to be careful that no-one touch the baby till the head is delivered and births can be harder because you don't have the even pressure of the head on the cervix. But ECV is apparently bloody painful. Moxibustion (a type of acupuncture involving smelly burning sticks) is fairly effective as an alternative.

a vaginal breech birth , overseen by experienced midwives is as safe , as a planned c.s for a breech.

and there is a difference between a breech birth and breech extraction. hands off the breech is the watchword

google mary cronk and AIMS for breech birth info

try moxibustion to turn the baby and ECV

BTW if you've had a previous CS they won't do ECV apparently.

Lulu - is there any published research comparing a (hands off) vaginal breech birth and CS? I dont' remember coming across anything when I've looked, but I don't have access to a lot of the literature so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

As for what is best, it very much depends on what medical resources you have available. NICE guidelines currently recommend a CS, or a vaginal breech extraction (Dr led, forceps, mother on back, in stirrups) - they do NOT recommend a breech birth (MW led, mother on all fours, hands-off the breech!) due to lack of experience within the NHS. There are some pockets of experience so it's worth asking, but even if your local PCT has MWs with breech birth experience being able to birth your baby that way may turn into a fight against hospital protocol.

Everyone has a different experience of ECV - for some women its agonising and for others its merely uncomfortable. If you do go for it, remember you can ask the Dr to stop at any time. You could also look for a Chiropractor experienced in the Webster technique, which has quite a good reputation for helping breech babies turn.

Try and get hold of a copy of "Breech Birth" by Benna Waites and/or "Breech Birth: What are my options" by Jane Evans.

DD was breech from about 28 weeks. I wound up having her as a breech baby at home with IMs. We declined an ECV attempt. That was the right decision for me and my family given my circumstances (I was lucky to be able to find IMs with the experience that could take me on at 36 weeks - otherwise I'd have been signing up for a CS).

So really in general it sounds like it's not the norm to go for a natural birth with a breech baby.

I think if the baby hasn't turned itself then i will give the ECV a miss and go for a ceserean maybe. Baby will probably turn itself and i'll have a natural birth anyway!!

Ds1 was an undiagnosed breech. Que 36 hours of labor and an emergency section...

Ds2 was originally planned as an elective although he came a bit early - still section and no labor that time around though.

A scheduled section is MUCH better than emergency section.

Thanks JW, ds was born 3wks early, if my baby decides to follow suit, then do you get scanned again when you go into labour, did you have to tell them over the phone that you were booked in for a ceserean.

I was very lucky in that my OB was taking call that night. she said "Stay calm, we're just doing what we planned a little early!" Lovely woman

We're in the US so I don't know if it's done the same there but I would think so.

I guess I should have added that early delivery came as a result of water breaking hence the obvious need for delivery but no labor.

Your Ob does sound lovely. did they scan you again before section?

They should still scan you before the CS.

Also meant to say that breech birth is a core midwifery skill (according to the NMC), so if you're interested in a vaginal birth it is worth asking how much they use those skills. Just ask the midwives, as the consultants are almost garunteed to recommend a CS - they are surgeons, after all!

No, they didn't do another scan. I just assumed they wouldn't need to.

oh i suppose it's pretty obvious anyway if they examine u before they perform ceserean.i just wondered uptil which point it could all change and they would send u home saying baby has turned you're not having a ceserean, would they do that say on the morning you are booked in?

SLightly O/T but can people actually tell if their baby has turned or how it's lying? I've tried to figure it out but I really can't get my head around how you know...

I had an emergency caesarean after 9 hours of labour when they realised DD was breech. It had gone undiagnosed for months. If we'd known, I wouldn't have gone for a vaginal birth as it just seems too risky - possibility of cord dropping down first and cutting off supply to baby etc. Recovery from c-section has been good but only because DH has been on hand for 4 weeks to help.

Difficult decision but I still think I'd go for c-section. Good luck!

BB - I always wondered how people knew when their baby turned ......... until last week.

I'm 31 weeks and can often predict when lo is going to get active (after eating, exercise etc) but he moved unexpectedly non-stop for about 2-3 hours one morning and I guessed that he had turned head down - and he had.

When you feel your stomach, bums are rigid and don't have any give in them. Heads will bob up and down as you put pressure on them.

Elmmum, mine was an undiagnosed breech as well. It took me a long time to come to grips with all of the trauma drama surrounding ds1's birth. Having an elective with ds2 was soooo much better. Can't even begin to compare the ease of the whole experience as well as recovery time.

I Had an ECV and found it bloody painful. I also had to do special exercises but they didn't work either. I had an elective CS but DS1 decided to arrive one day early. It was quite nice, though, because it was a surprise for everyone and labour wasn't in full swing (IYSWIM) so it wasn't an emergency CS.

Babies can and do turn at the last minute and your midwife will be able to tell.

ILikeToMoveIt - interesting! I always get a bit scared when poking bits in case I do some damage, but that's probably a bit daft I guess...

there seemed lots of movement last night from my baby but i think it's still in same position!

When are you able to push a lightweight pram after cesereran?

I had ds 3 naturally , he was undiagnosed breech.

I found it fine...his head was a little slow to come out and he needed a air on arrival, but it wasn't any worse than the other 2 .

Delivering to an audience of about 15 staff that had gathered was a little odd, luckily I was too 'in the zone' to notice!

Me too on day 5 but it was a tank of a silver cross and I was fine.

I had an EVC too - more painful than the CS recovery!!!! Would NOT do it again!