Why are so many women anti c-section?

[jivegirl]

Despite planning a peaceful waterbirth at home, I ended up having a very scary OP/ventouse delivery with my daugher nearly 2 years ago (delayed second stage, retained placenta, 3rd degree tear, plus internal tearing which had not healed after 6 months and required cauterising)

I have been offered a C-section and will see the consultant again to make my decision in just over a week. At present (35wks) bump is transverse, so the decision to have a section may yet be taken out of my hands. However part of me is secretly hoping the baby stays transverse so I don't have to justify having a section.

I can't understand why so many women seem to be anti-sections. It seems admitting a preference for a section is almost taboo.
I still get horrific flashbacks to delivering my daughter and can't think of anything worse than going through that again (my DP rates it as the most traumatic day of his life!! ) The thought of a calm, planned c-section sounds like bliss. Am I being naive?

I should also say that I will have excellent support from friends and family to help me cope with caring for an active toddler and a newborn in the weeks that follow - so I am sure I am luckier than many..

Would love to hear some opinions on this ladies!

im not anti c section.
id prefer not to be cut open if its avoidable, ta.
but if it was a better decision - on balance of all the facts in an individual case - for me to have one than not, then id have one.

whats so hard about that?

Because it's major surgery, elective or emergency, and has all the risks that major surgery brings with it.

Plus should you want to give birth vaginally again, you can't.

I don't think C-section is the easy way out.

Having said all that jivegirl, given your history I can understand why you might think it the easy option. I'm sorry to hear you had such a hard time.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best of luck with your birth.

Thanks Winky,

Although I understood that having a section didn't rule out VB in the future (not that I am too worried - 2 will be more than enough for me!)

Well, Ive spent the last 3 months hoping transverse baby would turn to avoid CS (it has, today, finally!) - not because I'm anti CS but because I would like to avoid major abdominal surgery if at all possible. However, an experience like the OPs and I will be quite happy to have CS next time and balls to whatever anyone else thinks. I will do whats best for me and my baby. I think there is a little bit of a matyrdom complex among a very small minority of mothers who think that if you haven't had a vaginal birth (preferrably without pain relief) you've somehow copped out of doing it properly. While I respect others' opinions and their right to have them, my opinion is that the prize is the same at the end, however you chose to do it. And before anyone shouts at me, I am one of those who hopes to get throught it all with no pain relief or intervention in a MW led unit. Because that's what I want.

I think, in some circs, women have to fight quite hard to avoid a cs that they personally don't want, and that determination probably translates into blanket anti-cs.

I'm fairly anti planned cs in women who are hoping to have more children. C-sections have so far given me 2 premature babies, a hysterectomy, a 16-pint transfusion, and a delightful 10 inch scar that zigzags out of the top of my jeans. Lovely.

But without the second c-section I'd be dead and so would my baby.

Elkat - now you have heard of someone with problems from a cs that will last forever.

Elkat - with respect, there's been some large scale good quality research recently comparing outcomes of elective c-sections for low risk mums, with the outcomes for low risk mums opting for vaginal birth. This research has found that outcomes are better for vaginal births for both mother and baby, even when take into account all the vaginal births that end in emergency c-section.

For me though the basic issue is one of care. I don't think so many women would want or need c-sections if they got better care in labour.

I have heard too many stories from mums who've had badly mismanaged vaginal births - women who've been left alone in labour for hours, been induced and left labouring on an antenatal ward with no pain relief, been marooned on a bed strapped to a monitor for hours on end... exausted, frightened, starving....you name it... and then these women end up in theatre feeling profoundly grateful for surgical intervention that they may well not have needed had they been supported to labour effectively.

hatrick - I think people express these views because they genuinely don't know the facts though. People who think you are a martyr for not opting for pain relief often don't know very much about the possible short and long term side effects of the drugs used in labour; people who are anti homebirth are not aware that there is evidence which shows it to be at least as safe as hospital birth for low risk mums.

If you are made to feel it's politically incorrect to express these views in the first place then there's no opportunity for anyone to challenge your beliefs!

I genuinely believe that most people are not nasty or judgemental - they honestly feel they have good reasons for their views, that's it's not just prejudice and bigotry.

I know I'm probably going to be flamed for saying this, but I often feel some women have unresolved insecurities or issues surrounding their birth/feeding choices or experiences that makes them take the views of others very personally, to see a personal attack or judgement where none is intended.

Fabsmum - I totally agree. For me the worst part was being out of control, felt like I was a slab of meat and the midwife couldn't give a toss. A little bit of reassurance and a gentler bedside manner would have worked wonders (for me at least )

I wonder if hospitals are more prone to forcing emergency sections because ultimately they don't want their neck on the line if they've persevered with a VB at the request of the mother and something goes wrong??

Sorry, I'm talking crap. You can give birth vaginally after a C-section. I did! Was distracted but it can be a bit of a battle with the consultant to persuade them to let you even labour because they're worried about the scar rupturing which is very rare in itself.

jivegirl - my personal feeling as that almost all midwives and doctors strive in their own way for the best outcomes for mums and babies. I don't believe that most staff involved in maternity care are at all cavalier about c-section rates, but many midwives are burned out by the pressure under which they're working.

Unfortunately the system makes it impossible for them to provide the really safe, good quality care that women need that would result in a lower c-section rates. If you have one midwife looking after 4 or 5 women in labour in an environment that's geared towards routine intervention it's inevitable that it's going to affect the progress of normal labour for many mums in a very unhelpful way.

It's perfectly possible to have a problem-free CS. Mine was an emergency but after it was all done and dusted, I recovered in no time. The scar hurt when I coughed or laughed for a few days but there were no bf issues, no wound infection, healed quickly. The same can't be said of my VBAC. I'd definitely have another section if I had a third, because birth number 2 was so awful. The episiotomy scar hurt far longer than the cs scar.

Planned sections are bliss. Wouldn't have it any other way. People who are interested in why or if I choose to have a section really should find something better to do.

With respect though Lyra, a lot of the difficulties women experience with VBAC, particularly the number of VBAC mums having assisted births, are connected to the original c-section. The additional monitoring (which impacts on mobility and ability to manage pain), plus the extra anxiety about the risk of scar rupture and the time limits put on the length of labour, particularly on second stage - well, it's hardly likely to contribute to an easy birth is it?

Fabsmum, I was monitored but mobile throughout my 24 hour labour. Second stage - I got to 2 hours of pushing with no sign of DS2 coming out. That's when they decidd on the ventouse delivery. I don't think it was connected to the emergency CS. My body is just crap at giving birth. It's a shame because I had two textbook pregnancies with very few problems.

Athene - I haven't got anything better to do right now so maybe you could humour me....

Hypothetically, if someone could promise you a straightforward vaginal birth and really good care, do you still think you'd prefer an elective section?

And a lot of complicated births attributed to c-section are actually complications of the vagnal birth.

I don't really think c-section surgery is that major to be honest. It took the surgeon a lot longer to replace ACL than it di to get my baby out. I suppose my belly will never be the same, but then neither will my knee.

Fabsmum (sorry butting in, the question wasn't directed at me), if I could be guaranteed a problem-free vaginal birth, I definitely go for it over a cs if I had a third. But knowing how my body reacts to birth, it's unlikely.
I do think some women just aren't built to give birth without huge complications.

"if someone could promise you a straightforward vaginal birth and really good care"

No one can. No one can promise I won't tear, or the baby won't go into fetal distress because they couldn't be arsed to find out if the cord was round her neck, or a million other things that can and do go wrong.

Sections carry less risk on the NHS. That's not what they tell you because of course the vaginal birth is cheaper and they have their udget to look after.

"Fabsmum, I was monitored but mobile throughout my 24 hour labour. Second stage - I got to 2 hours of pushing with no sign of DS2 coming out. That's when they decidd on the ventouse delivery. I don't think it was connected to the emergency CS"

And you don't think being closely watched in labour, and having the anxiety of having had a previous c-section (plus the internal feeling that your body is 'crap' at giving birth) impacted on your ability to get your baby out?

I think the (quite understandable but profoundly unhelpful) fear of things going wrong, a lack of privacy and constant watching (which is NOT the same as constant care) CAN hugely impact on your body's ability to produce oxytocin. And the mobility that's possible when you're on a monitor doesn't in my view constitute true freedom of movement. How is it possible to labour instinctively under these conditions?

Seriously Lyra, your body is NOT crap at giving birth!

"Sections carry less risk on the NHS. That's not what they tell you because of course the vaginal birth is cheaper and they have their udget to look after"

And your proof for that is.......?

Do you think we'd all be better off having c-sections?

I do think it is. Both times I needed intervention to get the babies out safely. I was monitored, but intermittently. I was able to walk around the labour ward, stopping for contractions, got into all kinds of positions etc. But I dilated very slowly. Tbh, I wasn't worried about the scar rupturing because I know that's rare, and I was sure I'd be able to do it myself the second time round. But after 24 hours it became apparent that he wasn't going to come out without a bit of help.

No, I don't think we are all better off with sections. But I think that those who want them should not have to endure being chastised for the desire.

I think women should have the right to choose.

no-one can promise any woman an uneventful birth with a happy outcome though, that is the truth whether you give birth by c section or vaginally. anyone who does promise that is lying.