Denied ELCS - is this normal?

[Sk1sk0]

32 weeks, had a consultant appointment today for elective c section and she rejected my request. Did not talk through any data, just brushed through some c section risks, told me second vaginal births have next to no complications and then asked why I’d do something ‘crazy’ like subject my baby to an ‘unnecessary ordeal’. Rushed on to say there were absolutely no medical grounds for my request so she’d obviously be denying it, bye, we won’t need to see you again.

I’d already had a birth choices appointment before this so wasn’t expecting a thorough conversation but is it normal for these appointments to only last about 10 minutes? And can anyone offer any insight into next steps - do I contact my midwife to ask for a different consultant?

There are physios who specialise in women's pelvic floor who might be able to help - might take some searching to find one near you but they are out there.

Why do you want a section when there is no medical need. It's a drain on hospital resources and all surgery carries risks. That's probably why your request was rejected.

@Viviennemary it's a drain on MN resources when someone so profoundly ignorant writes a comment on a thread that they understand nothing about.

The facts of the matter are that NICE guidelines allow for a woman to choose how she gives brith, and this is partly because the cost of aftercare for the millions of women who require surgery and long-term health support due to undergoing traumatic "natural births" is more costly to the NHS than a nice quick ELCS which is all done and dusted in 45 minutes.

So do please try to refrain from writing stupid nonsense on threads in future.

@Sk1sk0 I had an ELCS for the same reasons as you want one, and was lucky to get very minimal push-back and everything approved during an online consult (Covid). I do hope that the next person you speak to does their job better, and you get it all sorted out.

Best wishes!

Genuinely, why on earth would you post this when you must know you don't know what the fuck you're talking about? Looking up the NICE guidance wouldn't have taken you much longer than writing that nonsense did.

Is it a women's health physio you are seeing through pregnancy?
As he poster is right pregnancy and delivery really take a toll on your core and appropriate prehab and rehab for pregnancy and birth is so helpful in maintaining a strong core to support your pelvic organs.

Thanks so much @DuchessDandelion @WoolyMammoth55 @umberellaonesie
I’m just seeing an assigned NHS physio atm, I did see a private women’s health specialist for some time after my first birth but honestly couldn’t continue to afford the cost so that stopped before I got pregnant this time around. I’ve managed to book a one off session for next week and hopefully she’ll have some thorough insight into what route would be best for me. Have also been looking into peer research so hoping to be able to make the best informed decision possible.

What a helpful comment - thank you for taking the time to write this

Same happened to me. My reasoning is this is my first baby, he's estimated weight at my 34 week growth scan last week was 7lb. He's consistently measured weeks ahead since I started my growth scans at 20 weeks.
They tried to push me into an induction saying he's huge the risk of shoulder dystocia is very high etc completely petrified me. My aunt had a big baby and he got stuck and emergency section didn't get him out in time. He's half brain dead with cerebal palsy due to loosing oxygen for a long time. It's not a risk I'm willing to take, and I don't feel comfortable too. So therefore my choice is to elect for a section. After my 34 week scan I see a consultant and he laughed at me and said 'what you think your the only one who's going to have ever birthed a big baby, of course you don't need a section for that!'
Basically denied my request and told me not to be stupid😅

I requested to speak to another consultant , the appointment is tomorrow. I'm so nervous that'll I'll be flogged of again!

Yes and complain to PALS that’s outrageous

How awful for the consultant to speak to you that way! I’ll be thinking of you tomorrow, surely they can’t decline your request a second time. How long did it take for you to get a different consultant appointment?

Just to reassure you, OP – I had a planned section (it wasn’t elective as such, because it was mandated due to medical need, but it was scheduled!) and it went about as badly as a planned section can go where both mother and baby survive, and I still found it absolutely fine. Recovery wasn’t a breeze but it also was far easier than my sister’s when she had a vaginal tear. There are obviously pros and cons to both, but please don’t worry too much if you do go the ELCS route. More often than not they are absolutely fine.

Hope you get sorted soon.

@peachgreen thank you so much for the positivity! Sorry to hear not all went to plan for you but glad you found it all ok.

@Sk1sk0 honestly his aim of getting me to fck off and just go naturally near enough worked. I felt awful after and like I'm being dramatic. What is the chance a first timer is going to have a straight forward vaginal birth of a bloody 10-11lb baby!? More to the point why should I feel absolutely petrified into giving birth a way I don't want to and deem risky to me and him. I strictly will not accept forceps which is highly likely in this situation. If it's forceps or an emergency section then section it will be. They've put me into the high risk category due to his size, can't give birth on a midwife led unit due to size etc but won't accept my request of a section for my 'high risk pregnancy' absolutely disgusting. I weeped like a bloody baby walking out of the consultants room and he didn't give a sh*t

I said to DH I'm just going to have to do this naturally aren't I and bloody hope and pray it will all be fine. He said no absolutely not and forced me to call the midwife and push that id like an elective section as it's MY choice. She was shocked at the way id been treated and booked this appointment with a new consultant for the following week - she did say she will get the appt for asap as im 35 weeks now and the elective 'books' get full so i need to be booked in for one asap.

Ps dont know why half of this has gone bold and im not MN tech savvy ive not got a clue how to take the bold part off😂

There's "no medical need" because the NHS don't really care if you spend the rest of your life with your bladder hanging out of your vagina, unable to wee or shit properly, never mind have reasonably tolerable sex every again.

@anonny55 so awful and makes no sense, I can totally empathise I was a mess after my appointment too. When she declined my request I said could we talk about alternatives to induction then, she said why? You don’t look like someone who wants a stillborn!! I was so shocked but in that moment was just so scared to say anything back to her so I completely know how you feel. I’m glad your midwife was so supportive and got you in to be seen again quickly!!

I was initially planning an ELCS for the same reasons as you, @Sk1sk0 . I had NHS pelvic floor physio from around 28w and it really helped to improve things. I was referred by the consultant midwife who did my birth options meeting. Noone objected to my ELCS (which at 36w became medically advised anyway as DD2 was breech).

As it was, I went into labour before the ELCS date. When I arrived at triage, I was scanned and DD2 was head down. As my pelvic floor issues had improved, I decided to go for a vaginal birth. It was super speedy - around 1hr, one push and a very minor tear. I had none of the issues that I had after DD1 and I have recovered very well.

Obviously totally your choice to go for ELCS but just wanted to put my positive story out there. My consultant midwife said that often second vaginal deliveries are much easier because your body has been through the process once. But I do understand you thinking about ELCS because I was very much in the same place!

Mine was breech baby, consultant refused me a c section and wanted to do an ECV. Nurses and sonographer told me no, persevere and get that c section. So I did, consultant was a bit shirty and not very nice but I got the c section.
Lots of good advice on here, just be firm and stand your ground.

C section itself was calm, relaxed and over in minutes. The recovery is a bit like you’ve done 1,000 sit ups! Just take it easy. Get frozen ready meals in if you have to- anything to make life easier that first week.

Have a look at The Birth Uprising on Facebook and Instagram they give really good tips and advice on how to advocate for yourself and baby. They're a bit sweary but know their stuff and are really lovely and helpful. You can submit questions to them directly on their fb page x

@Sunnyshoeshine wow that’s great! Really glad things worked out for you. From the evidence I’ve read so far it looks like your midwife was right and that there’s not a vast amount of women whose symptoms worsen after a second vaginal birth. But there is still a chance, which is playing on my mind!

@Glitchymn1 What is it with these shirty consultants! Great to hear of your positive experience.

@Pigsinblankets13 Thanks so much I’ll check them out!

Put this in writing in an email with her name and position and quote exactly what she said - ask for her NOT to be involved in your maternity care anymore or in delivery of your baby and ask for a c section in writing but please put her comments exactly in - state you were shocked, undermined and disgusted by her comments at a time when you are pregnant and vulnerable!

email and please complain I hate women’s fears are dismissed. I wanted a c section I was terrified and I was allowed one.

Unless it's needed it does seem that natural birth is recommended. Going through the care throughout pregnancy will emphasise this. Surgeons don't want to unnecessarily cut open for birth unless risks involved. X

Sorry if this has been answered, but why would you choose c section? So many other risks and personally this surgery can affect things like bladder if the smallest cut accidentally happens. X

Thank you for the advice, I’m really glad you got the birth you wanted!

Because there are risks and benefits to both ELCS and attempted vaginal birth. And the woman has decided the risks and benefits of ELCS are more acceptable to her than those of attempted vaginal birth. I say attempted because one of the risks of trying to have a VB is an emergency section, which a planned CS virtually eliminates.