Stop Accepting Fucking Maternity Ward Crumbs!

[AKookyGoldMaker]

Hello, fine people of Mumsnet...

I've read various threads on here with women feeling angry at how NCT fooled them with the myth of 'breathing their baby out', and how so many women are resigned to accepting that birth will always be shit.

Why do we need to accept that birth will be shit? Why are we hiding or whispering about the trauma or sharing secrets behind a Mumsnet avatar, in a privileged country in 2024 there's no support for the lack of care and trauma inflicted when we give birth in the only option available - NHS maternity systems.

It's only shit because we birth within a broken system and everyone's gaslit into thinking the midwives and obstetricians know what they're doing and that 'breathing' right in a clinical and unnatural labour ward can be effective.

Midwives and obstetricians work to the guidelines of defensive practice which involves heavy intervention, to avoid litigation. Do mothers even understand the reasoning or the implications of having an induction and the numerous interventions that follow?

Professionals don't listen to the mother, and even if they did, mothers don't understand their bodies and they have no confidence to defend their instincts because nobody educates us on this.

Who can honestly say they understood their body and how to follow their basic human instincts throughout pregnancy and birth? How many pregnant/birthing women have been ignored by medical professionals only to discover that their instinct was right all along?

Penny for your thoughts... :)

I think the argument here between @CelesteCunningham and @AKookyGoldMaker epitomises the conversation between people who believe birth is a medical event and those who believe that there are errors in the medical model. Believe it or not we have been giving birth and raising children for millennia.

The reason for my c section is to minimise the chance of a scar rupture. I have been advised it is possible to go for a vbac, by one consultant, and advised I should not go for a vbac, by the consultant this morning. The one this morning is someone who did not have the notes from my old hospital. In any case the chances are less than 1/100 and these decisions are made on the likelihood of litigation and optimising the service over patient choice.

I'm not a hapless poor thing with no knowledge or access to medical knowledge. It's not 'dangerous' to offer me an opinion on where I am able to turn to make my own decision about my own healthcare - very often women are not listened to when it comes to choices about their births and just treated like pieces of meat on a table slab when it comes to birth. I have a PhD in a science field and the ability to understand and gather the right information to make an informed decision - my experience from my last birth are informing this decision - and I do not want the same experience again. I was induced last time, completely unnecessarily, for six days, as the baby was big, while I had to wait for a labour room which wasn't staffed as there was a shortage of midwives. It ended in a c section, under general anaesthesia, we both almost died. Meanwhile people all around the world are giving birth to 8/9lb babies just as I did with no intervention at all.

Thoughts are if you have a baby on the nhs you should think yourself bloody lucky and trust that the staff do their very best they can. They are damned if they do and damed if they don't. If they listen to the woman and the baby dies it's the midwife's fault ! They have to be careful and do what they see is the safest option for mum and baby. Please stop complaining and try and understand this.

Book an independent midwife.
continuity of midwifery carer. Proven to lower intervention and improved outcomes. Real information, evidence and choice. Care personalised to you. No cancellation of homebirth services.

stop complaining Nope, women have been told for millennia to shut up and just accept what we're given and to count ourselves 'lucky' it's not worse. This is absolutely not acceptable. We can and will demand better maternity care. Shameful post.

I think this is the best thing anyone can do - even if you want a full medical birth. Having someone who understands you and your body is so important, and the ability to feel safe is essential.
The difficult thing with this is it’s not available to everyone. It’s expensive and birth of all things shouldn’t discriminate.
do you think there’s a way to have that continuity of care back in the nhs?
what we’re your thoughts of birth before birth, and then after? No need to answer that!!! Just pondering. Thanks

Celeste, what I know about the case is in the post. I stand by my comments.

The fact that you blindly follow the orders of medical professionals who don't have the time to fully inform themselves with the mother's notes or care for her is most concerning.

Can you answer three genuine questions... weird mumsnet keyboard warrior mentality aside. We can resume the basic-bitch vitriol asap :)

1. Do you honestly believe the NHS is equipped for birth and that the education and information mothers receive before birth is sufficient?
2. Do you believe the delivery suggestions provided by medical professionals are tailored to a mother's specific needs and requirements?
3. why do you think mothers should be purely grateful for the treatment they receive and do you believe they should have standards?

Thanks x

1. I believe the NHS is as well equipped for birth as it is for anything else, sadly. Good foundations that are fraying at the edges thanks to over a decade of under funding. We should all be pushing for that to change, and not just in maternity services.

The information provided to mothers varies hugely. On the whole, I suspect women are not sufficiently informed about the risks of childbirth, the classic example being VBAC discussions that focus on the advantages of vaginal deliveries and the risks of c sections (often conflating EMCS and ELCS) but not the risks of vaginal deliveries.

1. I don't know that delivery suggestions should be tailored to individuals. I believe they should be evidence based, and also that the average midwife is not qualified to do that kind of statistical analysis. I also believe it's important to be prudent in order to reduce the risk of catastrophic outcomes for mothers and babies.

1. I don't believe I've said that women should be grateful for the treatment they receive, nor that they shouldn't have standards. I just don't particularly think the natural birth movement helps women, as I think a lack of education on the risks of childbirth underlie a lot of birth trauma.

I wouldn't describe taking advice from medical professionals as "blindly following their orders", I see it as respecting their expertise.

Hmm - I agree about NCT, but tbh during the process I had a strong instinct that I was going to die in childbirth (in the natural way) and it turned out that I was in fact correctly hearing what my body was saying despite what I was being told by the optimistic midwives - thank god for the medical interventions!

I think woman need to be listened to better but I also think that many women have a sanitised version of how their birth will be akin to what's shown in movies where after some short pushing perfectly clean healthy baby arrives without fuss when the reality is that birth can be a messy dangerous business.
Sometimes interventions are necessary and I know woman who end up really disappointed about their 'birth plan' not happening despite the fact that they've ended up with a healthy baby.

I think women should be told that have a plan but if it may not go like that and that's ok too. It's not a failure on anyone's part.

I couldn't have got through my birth without the midwives. I honestly hadn't a clue what was happening, despite listening to my body and educating myself beforehand. I do however wish they listened to me during pregnancy when I said I would not be breastfeeding. Numerous appointments, numerous leaflets I didn't want to read, and numerous discussions I didn't want to have later they finally marked it in my chart about a week before my due date despite me saying no since the first app. It's my body and my health, I know my reasons just fucking accept it! 🙄