Don't you think it's a sign that we interfere too much in first time labours when ...

[colditz]

.... the majority of second-timers' birth plans are just an extended version of "Fucking leave me alone, you butchers!"

interesting thought

it was more or less that with me

by the third time I walked into hospital and said to the midwife "please don't let the doctor come to see me"

yes, yes, yes.

The corollary is that you have to be a 2nd time mother to be taken seriously. Never again ...

Well, having just given birth to no. 2 son attended by a 1-1 midwife, I wish someone had 'interfered' w. me more during my first labour.

Both babies OP. Labour 1 a 58 hr marathon - I was not mobile(had no urge to be mobile, just followed my instinct to curl up on the bed sucking gas and air and was left to it) baby wouldn't turn, uneven dilation, epidural etc etc.

lABOUR 2 : 8 hrs start to finish, I went nowhere near bed, gentle support/persuasion to change position to sort out uneven dilation, baby turned - lovely.

Of course 1st labours are generally longer/more difficult but my take on it is that first time round more support/guidance would be useful for a lot of people (not necessarily medical intervention).

You're absolutely right in my case colditz. Ironic that my consultant was happy for me to labour normally with minimal monitoring and move about but the midwife ignored her and had me strapped to the bed with an internal monitor which I didn't need, then they argued slightly in the background as I neared the pushing stage about whether things were going badly or not (they weren't, baby had apgars of 9 and 9) and then midwife says to me "we have to get this baby out NOW, pushpushpushpush" so he shot out and I tore.

It was in retrospect, unnecessarily traumatic. Even to her leaving me uncovered in stirrups while various staff walked in and out for supplies that were in a cupboard in the delivery room

Next time, I just want some degree of control, so I've been considering an elective. Seems more civilised than that humiliating, frightening shambles.

james, did you make a complaint? the NICE intrapertum guidelines do talk about women being treated with respect and dignity, being left in stirrips whilst people walk in and out is not dignified

if you want to maintain some control, then have you thought about home birth? you are in your own envrionment which can make you feel more empowered, you can labour on your own terms.

but in response to the OP, second time around, i knew that it was more than writing a birth plan, but having an understanding of what those things i wanted/ didn;t want actually meant in practical terms.

I think it's generally true that there is too much interference, but for a variety of reasons. First labours tend to be longer and can be more painful as it's the first time your body has done it. Therefore the medical staff are maybe anticipating more difficulty. But alongside that, my experience is that many first timers are quite fearful of natural childbirth and choose to book into hospitals where there is a high level of intervention. When I did NCT classes first time round, I was one of only two women in the class who booked into the local midwife led unit, 3 miles down the road. The rest booked into a large hopsital about 20 miles away, which astonished me. There reasons were along the lines of, 'it seems safer to go to a big hospital' (wrong - the midwife unit has an excellent safety record) or 'I may want an epidural'. Most of the class did indeed end up with epidurals, and a significant number had forceps or ventouse - the age old thing of cascade of interventions. Once one intervention is made, others become more likely. I don't believe any of these women were different to me in any way - they had the potential to have a straightforward delivery without interference, but they made a choice which made that far less likely.
So - long reply, but basically yes, I think for a number of reasons too many first births end up leaving the mother feeling disempowered and often wanting the next birth to be a very different experience.

Colditz, I am pregnant with my second, and that is the entirety of my birth plan!

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My birth plan is more 'I don't want this, and I don't want that because of how little choice I ahd with my first two, first one, ok, was problems, second was fine and still was given no say, so this time I've covered every eventuality.
(I think)

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Yes!!!

My final birth plan was full of

No! No! No!

and btw my dh is useless as a birth partner but have no-one else so please be my birth partners instead (rather than leaving us to it and assuming we're okay)

It was a fab birth btw!

Doulas are amazing, but it's a complex situation.
Good midwives are leaving the NHS to become Doulas as they want to offer the one to one care that they know is right, which leaves the NHS with a shortfall and so ever more over stretched.

My first labour was my shortest and most painful and had the most interference also. Was given pethidine at 11:20 pm, my DD was born at 11:35 - you should not give birth within 4 hours of being given pethidine as it can make the baby drowsy and she needed to be resuscitated as her vital signs were so slow. The midwives did not know I was in labour and thought the baby would not be born until the following morning but arrived 15 minutes after being given pethidine because they said I was losing control and was upsetting the other mother's in labour - the reason I was losing control was because I was so close to giving birth.

Luckily with my second (slightly longer) and third (longest - 4 hours) they let me get on with it (as I am sure all midwives do when it is your second/third).

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It will never cease to baffle me, really.
The cost to the NHS of forcep deliveries, epidurals and emergency caesarians must be huge.
And there's the cost to the women who go through it.
I know in some cases there is no alternative but intervention, but I think it happens far too often when it could be avoided if the system was shaken up a lot.

If midwives could spend more time and effort in supporting 1st time mums this would help them have better births... a good 1st birth means a much happier mummy, more confident next time around... far less problem.... simple really!

I think my birth plan for no2 will be "If you think i may need a line putting in, do it BEFORE i'm in hard labour because finding a vein in my hands is like trying to find a needle in a haystack and will be easier if i'm not gripping the Gas & Air and my mothers belt like grim death. Other than that. leave me get on with it"

That was the only bad bit about my labour.. being messed with because the midwife decided i needed a drip to keep me hydrated.. i have very bad veins and it takes patience to find one that is useable and i vaguely remember my mom getting annoyed with the midwife because she had to try both hands while i was in that 'i'm in so much pain i don't know where i am' stage of unmedicated labour...