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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

If I had an episiotomy last time, will I need one this time?

27 replies

SydneyB · 29/01/2008 15:22

Had DD in hospital, had what I now think was an unecessary episiotomy. Looking back on it I think they got me pushing too early and once they cut me she didn't come out any quicker. This time I'm thinking of a home birth but I'm wondering if I will tear along the episiotomy scar or whether they'll need to do one again? Also, do they do them at a home birth at all? It took ages to heal last time and I ended up with an infection. The birth was just fine, its the aftermath I'm not looking forward to..

OP posts:
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IdrisTheDragon · 29/01/2008 15:24

I had one with DS (forceps delivery) and didn't have one with DD. Also had second degree tear with DS and no tear with DD. Birth was much better all ways round with DD.

SydneyB · 29/01/2008 15:26

Idris - was there anything particularly different about your DD's birth i.e were you more upright etc?

OP posts:
belgo · 29/01/2008 15:27

I don't think midwives carry out episiotmies at home. And the chances are you won't need one anyway.

I had a home birth and tore slightly, I neeeded a couple of stitches but it was fine.

I think there are ways of trying to prevent a tear, for instance not pushing too fast when the baby's head is crowning.

If you want a home birth, go for it

SydneyB · 29/01/2008 15:31

Thanks Belgo. I do really want a home birth this time around. We have nowhere to put a birthing pool though and that's what really helped me with DD. I just can't bear the thought of those wards again...

OP posts:
belgo · 29/01/2008 15:32

you may to able to use your bath/shower for the labour.

MumtoCharlotteMay · 29/01/2008 15:32

Oh I know how you feel! My cut was huge! It meant I couldn't walk for weeks, had bruising all over me and down my bum and inner thighs. Not pretty!

From what I know they'd cut you again if they thought you'd tear badly. Yes I think you can still have a homebirth if you'd like one, I beleive they can carry out the epi when your at home - ouch! From what I was told in hospital they'd rather cut you then let you tear because it's far easier to stitch a cut, if you were to tear nobody has any control over how big the tear would be iykwim?

I doubt they would have felt the need to carry out the episiotomy if they didn't need to. I seriously, would much rather they cut me and managed to stitch it up neatly then to tear and not know how bad it'd end up being. If they did need to cut again it wouldn't be over the previous one.

MonkeyandBabyBoo · 29/01/2008 15:34

SydneyB, I had an episiotomy with my 1st (forceps delivery). Like you, it got infected and took months and months to heal. With my 2nd I did not need one, it was a much quicker birth, I did tear ever so slightly on the episiotomy scar but only needed 3 stitches that side with one deep muscle stitch and it healed very quickly.

If you want a home birth then go for it - good luck

expatinscotland · 29/01/2008 15:34

Not necessarily.

I had an episiotomy for forceps delivery with DD1, but had DD2 with no drugs and only got a graze.

knickerelasticjones · 29/01/2008 15:40

hi there - I also had an episiotomy with DD1 (forceps delivery) but didn't need one with DD2 who was a home birth.

Don't know if midwives do epi at home birth - I did tear with DD2 though, but I was expertly stitched up at home!

Can you have a chat with your midwives to talk through the possibilities? My experience of home birth with DD2 was wonderful - I'm sure part of it was luck, part of it was that she was my second baby, but I'm sure that the whole thing went better as I was much more relaxed being in my own home.

good luck!

SydneyB · 29/01/2008 15:44

Thanks for all your posts. I am even more convinced I want to go the home birth route now!

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wahwah · 02/02/2008 14:18

Hi there I had a home birth and my midwife tried to help me deliver for many hours without an episiotomy, but I did need one in the end. Like you I am hoping that i don't need one this time, but my midwife has told me it is more likely that i shall need one as the scar site won't stretch in the same way as the rest of me. i'm really glad to hear from other women that it's not inevitable though - thank you all very much.

tiredemma · 02/02/2008 14:29

I had one with Ds1 but didnt need one with Ds2

Scotia · 02/02/2008 14:37

I had one for my first, but not for the other 4!

Mintpurple · 02/02/2008 16:46

Hi SydneyB

Midwives can and will do epis at home if necessary, however its really quite unusual to need one for a second baby, unless it looks like it will be a very bad tear. It is usually done at about 7-8 0'clock position, so, yes it may go through the old scar.

Remember that with an epis, you are cutting through the muscle as well and with a tear it is often just skin involvement, so its normally better to have a tear.

The best way to minimise the tearing is to birth slooowly, let the head come out really slowly and there is much more chance of the peri stretching. Give an almighty push as the head comes out and you will probably tear. Also, many tears are caused by the posterior (lower) shoulder when the baby is delivered horizontally, IYKWIM. If you can imagine lying on your back, and once the head is out, you reach down and lift baby up to you, the body will be coming out at roughly 45 degrees, and the shoulder will not tear the peri. (Try getting that through to the doctors though)

When I trained, it was almost routine to do an epis with a first baby, so some older m/w are a bit keen to still do them - the upside is that you get pretty good at repairing them though.

Its really difficult to tell prior to pushing if you will need one, but unless you had very bad tearing last time (so a lot of scar tissue) its really unlikely you will need one. Incidentally, the sutures should not hurt at all if you have good local anaesthetic, (and I know from mn that the sutures can be a lot worse than the birth).
It is cruel and bad practice to have the woman jumping around in pain during suturing, so if its sore, demand more local anaesthetic. You will feel touching in the vaginal area, but you should NOT feel the stitches.

Sorry if this is a bit technical and gory!

Lulumama · 02/02/2008 16:50

mint, i have often read, often in older books, about hot compresses on the perineum and massage in second stage to help it stretch...any thoughts on the efficacy of such things? i know some MWs don;t like to guard the perineum at all as want to be hands off....is there anything to be gained through heat or massage?

Mercy · 02/02/2008 16:55

I had an episiotomy with dd but not with ds (had a 2nd degree tear though - was completely unaware of it and no pain afterwards) Both in hospital btw.

hth and good luck

Mintpurple · 02/02/2008 17:33

Hi Lulu

I have seen some older m/w doing the hot compresses thing, but Ive never actually noticed any difference to the tearing tbh, although the women seem to really like the hot cloths, so its a bit of relief from the stinging I suppose.

I think water helps, but there is no control of the head in minimising tearing, so you have to take your chances in the pool
Also I dont think guarding the peri (which involves putting a pad or cloth over it) helps much, as you cant see any tearing starting, and one of the things we look for is 'buttonholing' which is where a tear starts in the middle of the peri and will guarrantee a 3rd degree tear without an epis. You cant see that with a pad over it. I think massage in pushing can help, but its a fine line as too much will cause swelling and this will encourage tearing. It will speed up second stage however, and can reduce the need for ventouse in primips.

As for hands off technique - its taught to the student m/ws in the uni now as the best thing, but in our unit, the 'hands off' midwives have many times the rate of 3rd degree tears that the 'hands on' m/w have, and personally (and this is only a personal opinion before I get roundly critisized for it), I feel its bordering on negligent. Its all really complicated actually and so much is just down to luck. I delivered a nearly 12 lb baby a few weeks ago with no stitches, while I had to stitch the 6 1/2lb-er I delivered last night!

So although the skill of the m/w counts for a lot IMO, there are absolutely no guarantees about anything.

ps Lulu - I know that you know the terminology etc, but I ususally try to expand on it for other readers, hope you realise that Im not meaning to be patronising to you in any way

Lulumama · 02/02/2008 17:38

thank you for such a comprehensive answer ! very helpful. as always

Lulumama · 02/02/2008 17:41

12lbs

there is a bit on the video i have of just after DD was born, with DH holding her up, and showing her off, you can just see me in the background, with the MW, asking if my perineum is intact it was ! i did have a labial graze, ouch !

Mintpurple · 02/02/2008 17:49

yes labial grazes can be really stingy, even if they dont need stitched. Never figured out a way of stopping them though!

deaconblue · 02/02/2008 19:52

This is so good to read, I was convinced that after having an episitomy with ds that another one, or tearing along the scar was inevitable. Mine healed easily last time but still would be nice to hope I'll be lucky enough to avoid it this time

berolina · 02/02/2008 19:55

Episiotomy with ds1. Second degree tear with ds2. Both minimal pain and fast healing. And tbh I didn't feel it at all when I tore (no pain relief, fast labour) and was surprised afterwards when they said I needed stitches.

soapbox · 02/02/2008 19:56

I didn't have one with my second delivery, but tore along the same line as the episiotomy I had with the first. It resulted in a pretty bad tear (3rd degree) and on reflection, perhaps the episiotomy would have been better.

Big babies though - both 9lb 8oz.

SauerKraut · 02/02/2008 20:03

Had an episiotomy with first one, subsequent 3 without!

NorthernLurker · 02/02/2008 20:12

Sorry to go against the trend but I've had three. First time I apparently tore one way and was cut the other (?) -tbh never enquired too closely! Second time - the scar tissue didn't cope very well so had a cut as well as small tear. Third time - told the midwife I was quite resigned to needing one again - she was really disappointed! I used a much better position this time but did need to be cut again. It's strange to read everyone else's posts because having had three - it seems normal to me and I have to remember that it isn't. My cuts have always healed really quickly and well and I barely registered the cuts during the birth so I can honestly say it doesn't bother me. I suspect that the only one I didn't need was the first - had things been different. Dd1 was a quick birth and she started arriving much more quickly than the midwives expected - minutes before they had been saying it would take hours!
Definately not having any more though - there's only so much embroidery a woman can take!

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