St Helier, Kings, Epsom, Tooting Birth Centre

[Sabin]

Am new to mumsnet and currently 8 weeks pregnant with my first baby. I'm currently with Mayday but my GP told me that recently there has been a policy change where I can now choose which hospital to give birth in. The options available include Kings, Farnborough, Epsom, St Helier, Mayday, St Georges and East Surrey. Looking at past threads on Mumsnet, I've been put off Mayday, St Georges, Farnborough and East Surrey for poor aftercare. I could not find recent birth stories about Epsom, St Helier or Kings - does anyone have experience of any of these? Also is post natal care generally lacking in NHS hospitals as this seems to be a common post in many threads? I have also heard about Tooting Birth Centre, a private centre, does anyone have experience of it? Appreciate any comments/stories.

Congratulations on your pg firstly!

Can't help just at the moment but give me a couple of weeks and I'll be able to tell you about Epsom... gulp!

Tooting Birth Centre is next door to St George's and has an excellent reputation. But it is of course private, and you have to pay for your antenatal care as well as delivery (NHS policy is not to let you pick and choose so you have to go private 100% or not at all). If you do need medical intervention then you can be transferred very quickly, and the mw team there are excellent. But it is not cheap.

I would consider the journey time to each of the hospitals - there is quite a distance between Epsom and Farnborough (as was - it has been renamed now). Also I wouldn't go just by feedback on this site as some of the facilities have changed - Farnborough (now Princess Elizabeth) has been revamped in the past 6 years, Mayday now has a mw-led birthing unit which is fairly new (wasn't around when ds2 was born there 4 years ago).

If it is purely aftercare that concerns you, you might consider paying for a single room. Mayday had an excellent infant feeding adviser. Rather than fretting on which hospital, personally I think that you are most likely to have the best positive experience if you investigate fully what options are available at say the two nearest hospitals (by road). If you go on all the tours etc then you are better informed as to what might be available. None of the hospitals will push all of the available options onto you, and you are more likely to be able to access the facilities that you want if you ask for them.

There is also the option of a home-birth, with a transfer into hospital only if it is medically necessary. The MW team to the south of the borough seems very good ime. Soupdragon has more recent experience of a homebirth in the area.

Hiya,
And congratulations!

The Tooting Birth Centre is great, but booking with Caroline Flint's practice (she's the midwife who runs it) will set you back £4500 approximately. Funnily enough not many of her clients use the birth centre - most of those who book with her practice end up having homebirths.

Is there any particular reason you don't wish to book with Mayday? Mayday has the lowest c-section rate in the region and the new birth centre there is absolutely FANTASTIC. I sit as a user rep on the MSLC so I talk to lots of local women about their births at Mayday and the feedback I get is that the care in the birth centre is outstanding.

Admittedly the labour ward isn't as 'user friendly', and the postnatal care can be poor, but my feelings are that it will be the same in any large teaching hospital in London. It's the luck of the draw when it comes to busy consultant led units - it depends how many other women are there, what midwife you get, how many staff they have that night on the postnatal ward, and how many c-section mums they have to look after.

The only thing I would say is that at St Georges you're likely to get better support with breastfeeding after the birth because they've done a lot to improve this aspect of their care, but even here it won't necessarily be consistent.

Sorry - wanted to add that what Lady Muck has said about travelling times is really, really important.

The one piece of advice every midwife worth her salt will give you to improve your chance of having a normal birth is - stay at home as long as you can.

If you've got a long drive it'll make it much harder for you to do this.

Hello there

Am with the birth centre in Tooting. Pricey but we went for it and spread the payments monthly, which they're happy to do.

Am 41 weeks tomorrow. Birth centre looks very homely and you can go and have early labour there, no chance of being sent home for being too early in labour. Also, is literally next door to labour ward, so transfer can be quick if needed by being wheeled down the path through the gate to the hospital. Although if it's an urgent transfer they still use an ambulance so the paramedics can get started treating you on the way in.

Will let you know how the birth at the birth centre goes. DS was born at home with an independent midwife, which was lovely, but feel better being nearer to hospital in case need urgent attention.

Good luck with the choice. Ps. birth centre gets booked up v quickly - we were too late with DS.

we used caroline flint and couldn't have been happier. the biggest thing you're paying for is total consistency of care: 2 midwives who get to know you really well during pregnancy and are with you throughout labour. they will be with you if you give birth at home, in the birth centre or if for any reason you end up in hospital at St Georges (this is where mine came into their own completely i had laboured for 3 days and ended up in there on a tuesday morning, no one around, they got me on the gas and air quick sharp and were able to advocate for me so I still felt in control of what was happening to me [if not in me!].

The aftercare is phenomenal, one of the midwives went home whilst we were still in hospital (we were there for a total of 4 hours!) and tidied up, got breakfast things ready and was there for us when we got back. they follow up daily for the first week i think and it is fantastic to have that.

imo no one should have to pay for what is a basic requirement of pregnancy and labour: consistent care by skilled women who know you and you are completely comfortable with. this is what women have always had traditionally and what is so sorely lacking now. if you can get it on the NHS fantastic. unfortunately in london this is very rare indeed.

rates have gone up massively since ds was born 4 years ago, but if you can afford it i wouldn't hesistate to recomment them.

when i look back on what was an extremely long labour which didn't go according to plan, i feel nothing but pride and positive happiness...i'm absolutely certain that without the support of my two midwives things would have totally different.

There was a thread about Epsom quite recently & I think most people seemed quite happy with it - I looked at it because my two were both born there - rather too long ago to be of any use to you - in fact DS will be 20 tomorrow!

I'll se if I can find the thread ...habg on a minute....

hang on...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1365&threadid=373261#7606672 Here it is - couldn't find it at first-I'd forgotten I was still AttilaTheMum then.

I had a baby in Epsom in 2006. The delivery care was fantastic, the post natal care was poor in my opinion. This was because there were not enough staff.

However, I think you are right when you say poor post natal care is common in NHS hospitals.

If we're on the subject of independent midwives, I used South London Independent Midwives who charge MUCH less than Caroline Flint's practice and are FANTASTIC. In my borough all the NCT teachers used this practice for their own homebirths - and you can't get a much higher recommendation than that!

You don't have access to the birth centre but they can care for you at home or be with you in hospital if you are having a hospital birth.

They can't 'catch' your baby in hospital - officially anyway (although mine did and from what I've heard from other mums with IM in hospitals this happens fairly frequently). This is because in the instance of a malpractice case things would become very complicated (especially as they are uninsured).

Anyway - back to the subject of hospitals, I don't think you can do better than the new birth centre at Mayday, and the aftercare in the birth centre is excellent (it's only on the postnatal ward you get mums complaining). I think the main thing is to chose somewhere you'll get one to one care in labour, and where they have a low c-section rate. East Surrey is good for midwifery care, but they have a 29% c-section rate...... As a mum that would worry me.

yes can't back up enough what sophable was saying about the amazing feeling of having midwives you know very well during the birth.

during my first pregnancy i went to hospital with early contractions at 32 weeks and they stopped as soon as i was examined. i was SURE this was because i didn't know the people examining me, and that once in real full term labour contractions would also stop/slow with strangers examining me. that made up my mind to go with an independent midwife.

also wanted to say: with the tooting birth centre you can cut the costs as we have by going nhs for most of the pregnancy and then taking the seven-month package, so you start at the birth centre when you're seven months gone. much cheaper than going with b centre from early pregnancy. you register early in the pregnancy for the seven month package, have an initial meeting with a midwife, and then see them again at seven months.

I had DD1 at St Georges and thought it was very good in some respects and not so good in others. The ante natal care was fab. Great team of midwives that I got to know, etc. I didnt know the midwife during labour but this didnt matter as she was brilliant. My only gripe was the after care. The ward was 4 bedded so 4 women and 4 screaming babies = no sleep. I saw a breast feeding counsellor was I was really stuggling with feeding and all she could say was how she had to go home and how the woman before me took to it like a duck to water . Just made me feel like crap in my hormonal and sleep deprived state. We never did get on with breast feeding and I am sure that was why. The community midwives were great though.

I am now booked into Kingston. Feeling pretty nervous as I have heard some shocking stories. The thing is birth and pregnancy are such individual experiences so its difficult to decide how much impact a hospital has on someones overall opinion.

These stories all sound very positive. When I was pg with DD, I heard awful things about St Helier and Kingston. DD is now 5 so tbh it's quite possible that things have changed.

I went private to the Royal Surrey (in Guildford) and although my obstetrician was private, the delivery was private and the room was private, the aftercare I got (from the maternity nurses on the NHS ward that my room was on) was terrible.

Despite the lack of aftercare (although I was signed off by a private obstetrician) I think I I would still go for delivery in an NHS hospital. They may not have the frills but they do have the expertise if something goes wrong, unlike some of the posh private ones.

Thanks very much for all the advice, its been so helpful and reassuring to know I have a place to turn to for all my silly questions

My GP is good but she has experience with Mayday only and can not advise me about other hospitals - and I have found the community midwives are very pro-Mayday too.

The closest hospitals to me are Mayday and St Helier, both equally distant. The reason I am worried about Mayday is that my cousin's wife had a really bad experience there, ending up in a coma due to heavy bleeding which went unnoticed after giving birth. Thankfully, Mum and baby were OK in the end. It sounds like the Birth Centre has made things better recently - I didn't know I could tour the maternity facilities beforehand, having a look round both St H and Mayday would be grand.

LadyMuck, do I book a tour directly with the hospital?

Lovemybabes, SarahJCT, thanks for your comments and wishing you very very very good luck with your births

Sabire, I will also contact South London Independent Midwives, thanks, I had not heard of them - although being my first baby, maybe a home birth is a bit risky?

ThreeRustyHens, thanks for the link to Epsom... I'm expecting end July/begin Aug 2008, it sounds like I might be too late for Epsom as it sounds like its closing maternity services by then

I have ordered the brochure from Tooting Birth Centre as all of the stories from there are so positive and I like the sound of the 7 month option.

Message withdrawn

Sabin - You will need to check this but I believe Epsom is becoming a midwife led unit instead of actually closing in 2008. I think that means there wont be any emergency services on site so you may need to transfer to St Heliers if necessary for a CS or special baby care unit. I wanted to go to Epsom (as I was born there) and heard good things. At the time of booking in there wasnt any clear info about wht was happening. I didnt want to risk needing to be transferred so went for Kingston but would have liked to have gone to Epsom as I have heard good things.

Mayday does a weekly tour - it used to be lunch-time on Thursdays. No need to book - just turn up when convenient. If you phone the antenatal clinic at Mayday they will let you know what time and where to meet. I went on the tour twice (I took my birth partner), and it was interesting to hear the questions coming from 2nd or 3rd time mums. It is hard for a hospital to shake off a bad reputation, and tbh it is hard to find any hospital with an unblemished record.

I would imagine that most hospitals do some sort of similar tour. Any mum on their 2nd or subsequent pg would be unlikely to do the antenatal classes yet if they have moved to the area they still need some sort of overview of the hospital and its protocols (eg how do you get admitted into the maternity unit at night).

You need to phone the birth centre at Mayday to see it - it's not the same as the labour ward tour which happens separately. Ask your midwife!

Just for info of anyone else reading this thread, Mayday birth centre tours are Mon, Wed and Fri from 6PM and you should take your notes along.