VBAC after 2 c sections, on a small Thai island with some medical facilities- need the MN experience pool!

[duchesse]

My sister lives on a small island in the South China sea. The island has two hospitals and is relatively well provided for medically. She could very easily arrange a C section there, but she would rather have a VBAC.

No doctor either in her island or in a natural birthing centre in Bangkok that she went to, is willing to do a natural delivery after 2 c-sections.

She needs information and ammunition and other people's experiences of birthing in Thailand, VBAC after 2 sections either in the UK or not, and anything else you might think she needs to know.

Timing is crucial as if she chooses to return to the UK to attempt a VBAC, she has to travel within the next 2 weeks.

She's still following up the leads she was given by the MN collective.

I'm not sure it's a debate you can truly understand until you have your own first child. You are so vulnerable and at the mercy of those caring for you (in the hospital system anyway- I can thoroughly recommend home birth for re-empowering) at the time you give birth that an unpleasant experience can haunt you, sometimes for ever. It may seem a trivial distinction to have the baby by vaginal route or C Section, or with instrumental assistance, but it may seem very different on the other side of whatever option you choose, undergo or have foisted on you. (that last rather more to the point).

Hi duchesse. Yup - have certainly had my eyes opened.

Sorry, have been meaning to pop in and update everyone who kindly left suggestions on this thread. I was hoping my sister would but she has been quite unwell (very anaemic) and not coping very well, so has not got around to finalising her MN identity.

She is 38 weeks, and in Bangkok already as she is not feeling entirely well. Having contacted the consultant very kindly suggested by one of you good ladies, and although he was not exstatic at the thought of doing a V2BAC, he was willing to give it a go. So we are crossing our fingers and hoping it all works out for her.

I will update you all again after the birth. Thanks again.

I tried VBA2C and ended up switching to c-section during labour (no progression) (with good reason it was found once the c-section was performed- my scar was very very thin and 'leaking'). It sounds as if she does have easy access to c-section if needed.

Michel Odent's book caesarian is worth a read if she has time to get it. Shows how beneficial an in labour section is compared to an elective section....

yurt- did your contractions die down? I have heard of that happening in cases of scar rupture. It's amazing really...

No, but they didn't get very strong, and they never got into a rhythm (same as first labour although there they did get strong, but that was an induction). When they performed the c-section they said it was a 'mess' there was amniotic fluid everywhere in the abdomen - bleurgh- but I don't really understand how- - although they did say the scar was 'paper thin' so maybe it can pass though at that stage. My waters had gone so....... My consultant was very pro giving it a go (it was his suggestion), but I was pleased to be near medical back up iyswim.

sorry your sis is not feeling too good. sending positive vbac vibes her way

Hi all- my sister is still having trouble posting on Mumsnet, so I'm cutting and pasting an email that came from her this morning.

"hiya was just reading the thread and did try to post stuff but it just never seems to work!!! am a bit stressed at the thought of getting involved and all those women making judgement on my behalf so great you're keeping it up for me as interested to hear their feedback and experiences without feeling i have to be involved... as feel it's bad enough fighting the system and consultant here!!

still nothing happened as you've probably gathered which as you can imagine is frustrating me no end. 40 weeks tomorrow have now spent over 2 weeks in bangkok and want to go home!

iron levels at 8.9, were 9 two weeks ago!! this pregnancy is driving me mad and i want to get it over and done with! getting at least 10 new grey hairs every day can't be good.

...

had check up yesterday, head still very high 5/5 so long way to go; heartbeat moved from right to left which is about all that's happened. Consultant not confident, going away from 1st to 6th march so will end up with a c-section from 29th onwards if nothing has happpened!

How do i get this head to engage? or even baby to drop... thought all that yoga might have helped. any thoughts. have been scrolling the net for ideas but not getting much new inspiration at mo."

She sounds rather stressed unsurprisingly.

Has anybody out there found anything to help the baby's head engage? I have to say, my first two were posterior presentation and didn't engage until the birth (typical long & erratic labours), but I spent many many hours for the last three months leaning forwards during my third pregnancy (sitting back to front on chairs, leaning against piles of cushions, etc..) and she fair dropped out in 4 hours.

oh bless her

unless there is any reason to thikn that the baby;s head is too big to engage, which is not that common, then it is likely that it might well not engage until labour starts....which happens frequently with second and subsequent babies

OFP tips might help, birth ball, walking up and down stairs sideways can all encourage descent...

i had a posterior baby who was partially engaged from 34 weeks, labour very slow to get going, but went well once it did start properly.. she was born face up though.. but it was bearable! (pethidine and gas and air are marvellous!!)

visualisation can be relaxing and helpful

homeopathy? accupressure?

Thanks Lulu! She is reading this thread (not much else to do really whilst sitting around being v heavily pregnant...)

I will keep updating here as and when. Her consultant is going to be away from 1st March for a week, unfortunately, and as he is the only one in the hospital willing to give it a whirl, this is quite a stressful time for my sister.

that is a few days away yet

lots of sex to get the cervix ripening and nipple stim, preferably with a breastpump if she gets any twinges or niggles

Alas, her husband leaves tomorrow (has to get back to run business and house with 2 small children) so she is on her own from then. That's what was where the ... are, plus some family stuff. Unless she can find herself a ladyboy somewhere, that's not really an option...

she can do a bit of DIY orgasming,that cna help trigger contractions..

Duchesse, I've been thinking of your sister a lot. I'm in a similar situation (history-wise, not in Bangkok!). Two previous CS - 1st one because of failure to progress and 2nd one I was out in Spain and was badly let down by a private midwife who gave up on me very quickly after hours of contractions and no progress. Neither of the babies engaged, even after many hours in labour, but the first time I was lying on a bed almost all the time and the second time I was also just kneeling down over a birth ball, so not that active. I'm now back in the UK and planning a homebirth after 2CS in early April so I'll be watching this thread with interest. Once contractions start I've also heard that walking up and down the stairs sideways and having your legs on separate steps while the contraction is happening could help the baby descend. I'm also planning to use the birth ball and do lots of circular movements, swaying my hips, bouncing... hopefully all this will help the baby engage. Best of luck to your sister. I'll be watching the thread to see if there are any news.

Well, I rang her earlier and she having a massage, so couldn't talk. Obviously still pregnant though...

Looking like a Feb 29th (!) caesarian delivery, sadly. The 29th is the latest this surgeon can do it, and she doesn't trust any of hte other surgeons...

So unless this baby makes its mind up to exit tomorrow, she's havin' a leap baby.

Oh I'm really sorry to hear that (although it's a cool birthday). How's she coping with the idea? Is she able to put together a birth plan so that she feels somewhat in control even if it is a CS? Wish her luck from us please, although there's still some time...

oh

gosh

birth plan excellent idea. will they not induce?

Dunno about induction Lulu. I think her 'birth plan' at the moment is using the surgeon she's using.

I don't think an induction would be a good idea after two CS though. It's proved to increase the risk of uterine rupture. Presumably there's been no progress and the CS is booked for today? I'll be thinking of her.

My other sister just rang to ask if I'd heard anything. I haven't yet, and it's afternoon in Bangkok, but still no word. I will try ringing her soon we're getting a little worried not to have heard from her.

Have just spoken to her- she is having irregular contractions with a strange pain high up on the right hand side. She went in for monitoring and they tried to keep her in and do a Cs, but she refused and said she was going to go swimming. She says the contractions are quite irregular still. Her consultant is still there until tomorrow and will gladly do a C Section on a Saturday, and is also still willing to try her for a VBAC. Also, she might have found one of his colleagues who is willing to try a VBA2C, but only until Sunday.

So cross fingers for her please that this is real labour and that it progresses.

Fingers crossed here

twiddle those nipples, duchesse's sister!!

thikn baby thoughts !