Caesarean for "stupid" reasons?

[GloriaInEleusis]

Following on from this thread, I just wondered how many people have caesareans for stupid reasons?

I've had two, one crash and one planned. Neither was for a stupid reason.

chunkypudding there have been a few threads recently about positive birth experiences, here for example. Just wondered if you had seen them?

inthegutter, I am very happy with my birth experience, despite it not going according to my expectations.
'WHO is actually making women feel guilty' as you put it are those people who imply that if only I'd just tried harder/relaxed more/whatever I could have 'done it'.

I am so glad that you feel like you've achieved something with your vaginal birth. I have too with my cs - a happy healthy dd. I am happy for natural birthers to crow about their achievements so long as there isn't the implication that I should feel shame, or guilt about mine.

Suey2, I completely agree with you. See my post on other thread. Women are coached into feeling bad if they don't "succeed" in matural birth. And of course if one method is a success then the other must be failure.

MAybe we should start talking about our pride in a ceasarean. Look what a I went through for the health of my baby. The sacrifices I made... none of this poncy natural stuff.

And where did this notion that having suffered vast amounts of pain makes you a better woman or mother. If I went and signed up for shock treatment no one would say "oh well done you". They would think "hmmm that woman needs professional help"

GloriainEleusis, I just wanted to say how much I enjoy your posts! You are a woman after my own heart and talk a lot of sense.

The bottom line is that we are all adults and should be allowed to make an informed choice about how we give birth.

Glorai, that's rubbish, no-one has said that those who ahd CS's were any better or worse than those that had natural births (that I would assume not one of them would describe as 'fluffy' )

Neitehr thread ahs said that having a CS makes you less of a woman/mother/person, just that they should not be given to mothers unless medically necessary.

If a woman needs a CS, how on earth would that make her any less anything than a woman who doesn't need a CS?

I have had two CS's, one under GA, at 32 wks, that I didn't even know was going to happen (I had been taken down to theatre for an exploratory op on my ovaries and bowels, they discovered placental abruption and a womb full of blood whilst I was under) and another 'elective' (which for those of you who mentioned it, not sure which thread it was on sorry! does not mean 'non-medical' just means planned) because I was told horror stories by my consultant who was convinced if I went for a VBAC that my uterus would explode killing me and the baby.

I don't think anyone would say that I was less of a mother because I had to have to CS's, I would suggest however that many peopel would be quite happy to slag off celebs having CSections, it's like there is one rule for 'normal' people and one rule for celebland.

Are you joking? You don't think natural birth mothers are praised and section mothers are shunned? Oh people try to bite their tongues (sometimes), but when did you ever hear a baby was born by section and then hear someone else reply "oh well done you."? Never, I bet.

I even hear men brag about their wives who endured all the pain and went without drugs, like she's gonna get a medal or something.

I always think, goog God, why would you want to do that? Maybe I'm odd, but I'mnot really into pain and I'm not accustomed to offering praise for masochistic tendancies.

Oh, and hi Tutti!

You coming to the Christmas meet-up?

Women are praised for giving birth, yes, it is a wonderous thing they have done, but if someone is given a CS, it is normally because they could not give birth, I'm not of the opinion that having the ability to birth naturally taken away from you because of some form of medical complication (whether it be emergency or elective) makes you any less of a mother.

Do agree with Gloria that there is a general language around a c-section which is more along the lines of 'poor you' than 'well done you!'

I have had both a vb and a cs so have experienced both responses, but I don't necessarily think its about competitive birthing.

Having a cs means generally something has gone wrong. The mother has undergone surgery which is painful and takes longer to recover from. There may have been trauma in the labour. People are expressing sympathy for this as well as the obvious joy for the new baby.

I agree meemar, people do act differently if someone has had to have a CS, but it doesn't make them any less of a mother, and I wouldn't say that people believe it does, more ofent than not, if someone shows sympathy it is because the mother has gone through both labour and then an Em CS, which of course is the worst scenario for a mother, painwise!

"MAybe we should start talking about our pride in a ceasarean. Look what a I went through for the health of my baby. The sacrifices I made... none of this poncy natural stuff.

And where did this notion that having suffered vast amounts of pain makes you a better woman or mother. If I went and signed up for shock treatment no one would say "oh well done you". They would think "hmmm that woman needs professional help""

thank you! I did actually have a VB with no pain relief, but for gods sake - why oh why should I be PROUD of going through agonising pain? (I wanted pain relief but DS appeared very early and very fast)

Silly reasons to have a C section???
I want my partner with me at the birth - um, why is this such a silly reason?
I want to know when it is going to happen - isn't this just about taking control of a potentially scary situation
I have other children and I need to be able to book childcare for them - hey I'd have a C section if I got pregnant again cos I hate the idea of going into labour with a scared/screaming/unsafe toddler with me!

I'd totaly agree that given the figures on itnerventions on planned vaginal births in hospital if I had to go itno hospital for a birth I would have a C section.

As it was I had a planned homebirth (even if it was early) but wish I'd had a C section anyway because the emotional and mental scarring of giving birth has nearly wrecked my marriage. I had not way of knowing this beforehand and I didn't have a traumatic birth (excpet lack of pain relief). But ti completly screwed up my attitude towards my body and sex for a VERY long time.

Can we all stop trying to judge other mothers please? whether its births, feeding choices, childcare, sibling choices etc etc sometimes supermoms can be so bloody awful to people who don't do whats 'right'

Gloria and chibi - interesting that while you're making the claim that women who have c sections shouldn't be treated as having any way failed, your OWN language is full of prejudice about natural birth - chibi refers to women 'crowing' about achieving natural birth, whille Gloria says maybe women should take pride in c sections by rubbishing 'poncey' natural birth!
I sense that although we all talk about 'choice' there is still this underlying feeling that women who have natural births aren't allowed to say so! I'm not 'crowing' about my births - I've experienced both natural birth and csection. I feel empowered and proud of what i achieved with my natural birth and I feel grateful for the technology that saved my dcs life with the c section. And the most important outcome is my healthy children. And I'm not going to apologise for that!

halia, there are three women on my antenatal thread who need to know when they are going into labour, they have opted for induction, so there are more ways than CS to be able to prepare for the actualities of when.

inthegutter, I agree, it is seeming that a CS should be something to be proud of whereas those who have a natural birth should just get on with it and keep quiet.

I am probably the most vocal person on here wrt CS not being given for reasons other than medical necessaity, but IMO, if a woman needs a CS she has every right to it, and every right to have her wishes respected, and be proud of it at the end, same goes with natural birth.

Is it so wrong to think that surgery is not always necessary?

great post Halia

ok inthegutter, I bow down to your wisdom - I do feel inadequate because I so obviously failed. Instead of just breathing through it I (after 20 hours and 2 cm dilated) had an epidural. Then, when it turned out that my baby's head was stuck in the birth canal, I should have just prayed that much harder to the birth goddess instead of selfishly wanting both me + the baby to live. If I'd only hung in another day or so, who knows, maybe I too would have been good enough. As it is I wimped out and had a cs.

But again, hooray for you! You achieved a vaginal birth! You win! It is a teensy bit sad that you can't feel good about yourself without having someone to look down on.

I have had 4 hb and one (my first) was an uncomplicated birth in hospital.
All through all of my pregnancies I have been terrified of having to have a ceasarean!
Hats off to all you that would choose it! It scares me sh**less!!
Can't we all just be really proud of our beautiful children, however they come into the world?
It's not like you think about it every day when they are 10 is it!

inthegutter btw I am breastfeeding and doing blw. I also coslept. After starting off with such a tremendous deficit, do I get enough points for these to validate myself as a mother? What would you suggest?

chibi, I don't see how or where inthegutter said anything other than women not being allowed to celebrate their natural births.

She certainly didn't say you were any less of a mother, she also said she herself had a CS at some point, so I don't understand your anger.

Surely the only important thing is a healthy mum and baby at the end of it. If that is successfully achieved who on earth should care how you got there?

I ended up with an emergency c section which wasnt what I had envisaged. However my friend's baby born on the same day after a totally uncomplicated pregnancy didnt survive labour. This made any whining I may have done about not having the natural birth experience I'd read about ring rather hollow.

My DW was upset that she never gave birth 'naturally' as she had to have two emergency CS.

But she knows it wasn't her fault as her womb was 'a funny shape' (the surgeons very medical observation!) but she still felt a pang of remorse.

I have never met someone who has chose to have a CS though - so i can't comment on their thought process.

at the same time, who is saying that natural births shouldn't be celebrated? I don't understand how me not being ashamed, or god forbid even proud/happy with my birth experience precludes anyone from being happy/proud of theirs. With some people it seems to have to be 'me good, you bad' or vice versa, there can't be a win win.

LOL at chibi's post - I assume it's a piss take anyway. NOWHERE have I mentioned praying to the 'birth goddess'(??!!WTF) or 'gaining extra points' for co-sleeping!! NO where have I said that I can only feel good by lookin down on someone else! I couldn't care less how you chose to give birth! That's your decision.I am simply pointing out that I have not problem with you choosing an epidural for your birth, but please allow women who give birth naturally to feel good about THEIR choice.
To go back to the OP, there definitely ARE issues that should be up for public debate about whether C sections should be given 'for convenience', or simply because of fear of litigation. Apart from anything else, there is a financial issue as c sections cost more and the money is coming from the public purse. Of course, when it is a medical necessity, thank god we have c sections. But aside from that, it is a woman's choice about whether she feels more comfortable with a high tech birth with drugs or whether she doesn't.
Thank you Victoriansqualor for the voice of reason.

Again, who is saying that natural births shouldn't be celebrated?

suey2

the women i have supported are often fully aware of the issues with hospital birth, and the possibility if intervention. unfortunately, you don;t know until it happens how you will cope. some women never, ever have a negative thought about it, some do. you don;t necessarily know which one you will be.

i had never even considered that my birth would end in a c.s, it was never touched upon by any of my caregivers. that is wrong. with my second birth, i was a lot more informed, but would still have felt bad if i had had another c,s . and that is my issue, no-one elses.

i don;t thikn an unrealistic expectation should be one of a vaginal birth under clean, caring circumstances.

that is a fault with the NHS or each PCT if that cannot be provided.

my position is, birth is more than one day out of your life, inform yourself, learn, read, make an informed choice, the choice you make must be right for you, but there might well be circumstances you cannot anticipate or control.

to that end, in the work i do and in the roles i have taken on committees in our local hospital, i am trying to change things, so this lack of trust can perhaps be challenged.

if my position has ever made anyone feel guilty, then that has certianly never been my aim, and if you can point out whre i have said anything that could be construed as upsetting or guilt inducing, i would be happy to explain further, or retract any comments as necessary.

persoanlly, i don;t see anything wrong with supporting women to go for a a home birth, in a dark room, with no pain relief, if that is what they want.