How to get labour and delivery staff to listen?

[PinkPlantCase]

I see so many posts about women that weren’t listened to in labour.

That they’re repeatedly told they aren’t in established labour when they really are.

They aren’t allowed to be mobile during labour and they really want to.

They’re denied the pain relief they ask for and fobbed off with paracetamol.

Does anyone have experiences of successfully advocating for themselves?

I’m quite well educated about what rights I have in childbirth but would also prefer not to get into a huge argument because being stressed and upset won’t help baby come out. It seems like such a difficult position, I’m not talking about when plans have to change I understand that birth requires flexibility, I mean when a labouring woman is feeling upset/scared/angry about the care she’s receiving.

To avoid drip feed - I’m planning a Homebirth but obviously may need to be in hospital of baby needs to be induced or if we get transferred.

I think you need to make sure your birthing partner knows what you want and is prepared to talk up for you as depending what part of labour you are in you may not be up to a debate. Also try not to get off to a bad start with midwife build a friendly relationship and they are more likely to help you get what you want start off on the wrong foot and things tend to go wrong.

If it’s any consolation, I was very much listened to in my last birth. They listened and gave me what I wanted which in the end was an epidural. Before that I was moving around, had gas and air.
There are probably more bad stories than good on here. Maybe one good idea is getting your birth partner to speak up for you just in case you find it hard to speak for yourself when you’re in it. Make sure they know what you want.
In both my births they asked if I wanted to be mobile when I arrived at hospital as I think they’re really aware now of how helpful an upright position etc is. Outside of mumsnet I haven’t heard of anyone being fobbed off with paracetamol or the other things you mention. (I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just that I don’t know how common it is).
In both my births the midwives helping with my birth were kind and soothing and would not have wanted to see me getting stressed and upset as, like you say, it wouldn’t help the labour. They were very attentive and treated me with a lot of care. The only issues I had were in the postnatal ward where the care was a lot crapper (staff shortages plus I was probably very low priority as I was basically fine both times).
Just wanted to share my positive experiences to reassure you that i think it’s likely you will be listened to. All the best!

you’re going into it with an already defensive attitude which won’t help

@oldyellerbeller so I have to just be passive and hopefully that will help 😂

I started this thread to ask what would help. If there were any phases that people had used or conversions they’d had which really helped staff understand what their needs were.

Women are allowed to have preferences in labour other than just ‘get the baby out’.

[quote PinkPlantCase]@oldyellerbeller so I have to just be passive and hopefully that will help 😂

I started this thread to ask what would help. If there were any phases that people had used or conversions they’d had which really helped staff understand what their needs were.

Women are allowed to have preferences in labour other than just ‘get the baby out’.[/quote]
of course you don’t have to be passive

you also don’t have to go into it assuming the midwives and doctors are aiming to make it a bad experience for you

I may not me the most experienced out there, only having one DC, I will be honest though and say that I was listened to. It was 10 minutes from asking for an epidural to having the anaesthetist there waiting for me. I did have to say to one midwife ‘get out’ three times before she realised what I was saying though, whilst she wore me like a glove.

Even my aftercare was ok.

The only thing I will make sure I do again is to be clear and direct. As an example: I asked them to examine my cervix to help me choose if I wanted an epidural, the choice was in my hands not theirs. If they’d refused to examine me I’d probably have got DP to write it in my notes . Small steps like that keep the choices in your hands as far as they can be.

Talk to women who have gone through labor and delivery at the hospitals near you. I didn’t know that the hospital near me was known to be horrendous until I experienced it myself.

My first pregnancy was a sh** show ending in an induction I never wanted because there was no evidence that it was necessary (did multiple tests that came out normal) and was coerced into with consultants telling me I was killing my baby by not doing so. My husband was with me during the induction and was yelled at because the registrar assumed he was trying to “control” me when if she had let him finish she would have known that he was doing what I asked and so did all the other people in the room because they heard me tell him. Also, yelled at by another consultant because she wanted our room for someone else even though we were only told a minute ago that we needed to decide on whether to up the meds or an emergency c-section. We reported them in the end and lo and behold the induction was unnecessary (hospital words) nor could they explain why it was done. The consultants put us through that for nothing other than baby looking a bit big. Baby was 6lb 13oz. They said he was about 8 lbs which isn’t exactly big either. He wasn’t breathing when they took him out which we didn’t find out until the meeting (he was four months old) nor how long. Just said he needed a bit of oxygen. He didn’t need neonatal so he was assumed fine.

Unfortunately, it’s the closest hospital to us so second time around I wasn’t taking the sh** I had last time. I was polite throughout my first pregnancy and had things done to me without my consent so wasn’t going to go through that again. I was polite but informed now so I went straight to the consultant midwife who was not happy she was never sent to me after I told her what happened and she said that they were just starting that year (2017) doing seminars explaining consent to doctors about pregnant women. We discussed a plan for my pregnancy, had it in writing and on computer. She said if I had any trouble let her know. I had one consultant who lectured me on not taking a test that was already decided I would do something else instead that was more accurate. The moment I got home, I called the hospital and said I’d like a different consultant. The next consultant asked me about it months later and I told him why, he understood, and said he was happy with that, however if anything with baby changed they would like to test me again if that was ok and I agreed. I had a smooth, calm pregnancy and went into labour naturally. My labour was amazing, a zen-like experience and complete opposite of my first. I had a doula the second time around instead while my husband stayed with our oldest. The midwives and consultants I had were lovely and my care was wonderful.

I've had two children now and was listened to both times fully. I think this is the problem with people listening to birth stories before giving birth themselves, you tend to only hear the bad ones, the painful ones where women weren't listened to. Don't get me wrong it happens of course it does but you don't tend to get women starting a post just to say what a wonderful labour and birth they had or a post to say how they were listened to, do you get me?
As someone has already said try not to assume this will happen to you as it's going to stress you out. You need to have faith in the midwives. I know on this childbirth board there was a thread about positive labour studies as I added mine, probably about 9 weeks ago, try and scroll down and find it and have a read it might help 😄 and good luck. Ps also whilst in labour sometimes some of the things you thought you'd want you then couldn't give an absolute crap about 😂 because as you said "you just want this bloody baby out"
X

I think also you always need to remember that people post the worse.....the vast majority who none of that happened to, don't post- because they don't need to. People only ever post the worst or very best experiences- the millions, if not billions, in the middle- don't. It's a hrs thing to remember. I'm a critical care HCP- I was panicking all pregnancy because so much goes wrong......but it doesn't, I obviously juts see when it does. Same with birth/ midwife stories.

I had a mixed experience. I had an emergency induction on a very busy prenatal ward - they were short staffed so I wasn't checked very often. I was sympathetic as I work in a hospital and know how difficult it can get. I had my own room so didn't have a member of staff within sight like you would in a hospital bay.
I think they believed that because I was being induced and it was my 1st that it would take days before I was in active labour .... It only took a few hrs.

The midwife I was introduced to at the start I never saw again as we were told she was busy or on a break ( fair enough). So my husband asked the senior midwife on duty to review me as I was struggling with very quick contractions. He went to her office 3 times - each time she was on her phone ( maybe she was contacting agencies to try and get more staff but it didn't look great). She eventually examined me and immediately arranged for me to be moved to the birthing suite.

The birthing suite staff were amazing, they asked about my birthing plan and couldn't have done more to support me.

I wouldn't have physically been able to walk up to the senior midwife's office so my husband did all the chasing for me ( no one responded to the call bell ) - he was polite but very firm with them and understood that his role was to advocate for me.

As others have said make sure your birthing partner is confident in what you want.

I think phoenixerose’s advice about asking people locally about whether or not they’ve had the issues giving birth there.

My friend and I both ended up with emergency c sections with our first births (different hospitals). Mine was great - they did everything they could to make sure that DH and I were ok. He was with me in the operating room, they insisted that he be the first person to hold DS. As soon as it was possible (after me being stitched up) I got to hold DS, do skin to skin and breastfeed him. For my friend, her DH wasn’t allowed in the delivery room; after the surgery she was sent to a recovery room with other mothers and didn’t see her baby for hours. For her second, she gave birth in the same hospital as me. She wanted a midwife led VBAC, no pain relief, walking around, and they accommodated it all. So it can be down to the hospital you’re in.

I was told various things through both my labours - first one they wanted to send me back home as I wasn’t dilated enough, but DH advocated for me to stay (which I did. I wasn’t really able to push for it myself). My waters broke when they were doing the second round of monitoring and I was formally admitted then. It was fine. Second time I wanted an epidural, initially I asked for it too early but I did get one later and it was amazing.

I do understand what you’re all saying in that we only really hear the worst stories. I know that the majority of births go smoothly.

I’ve also found thought that when you talk to people about their birth stories they often haven’t realised where they could of had different choices. Eg. People who were told they ‘had to’ lye on their back, they were uncomfortable but though that was just part of it and didn’t realise they could have discussed being in a different position.

@Quail15 it’s scenarios like this that become particularly difficult in covid times where a lot of places aren’t allowing partners in until you’re in established labour. So aside from me calling DH on my mobile and saying he needs to come now because I can’t get out of bed to find someone who can help I’d be left to just press a buzzer and hope someone comes. Which sounds a bit crap.

Locally there is only one hospital! But I’ll try and have a chat with people who’ve given birth there recently. I don’t really know many people who have in the last 5 years or so.

I have so much trust in the Homebirth team that are doing my midwife visits and am not really scared about labour or birth.

In a hospital setting it seems like most people either haven’t had to advocate for themselves because everything ran smoothly, did advocate for themselves but did most of the legwork before hand eg. @phoenixrosehere or relied on a partner to do so.

And it’s the partner part that becomes difficult as mentioned with covid.