Have you had/would you consider a breech birth?

[Ceolas]

This is my 4th pregnancy. Have had 3 vaginal births (including a 10lb DS 4 years ago!).

Currently 35 weeks and baby is breech. I have been trying lots of knee-chest positioning and inversion but it still feels the same.

I know baby still has time to turn and we have the option of external version in a couple of weeks. But thinking ahead, I'm dreading the thought of a Caesarian section and wondering about the possibility of a breech birth.

I am booked for home birth at present and will accept if it had to be in hospital. Are breech births so uncommon? Would there be MWs confident/skilled to assist?

Has anyone done it? Any stories - positive or negative?!

I would consider it, would also seriously considr a Doula or independent MW if you want to try.
Possibility of success depends on presentation -- I don't know how that can be determined. Have you asked around on the UK homebirth email list?
Also, my understanding, if you do try for vaginal breech, is that either it proceeds steadily by itself, or go straight to C-section. It's the interventions that make the risk unacceptable.

I read that a lot of breech babies turn by themselves after labour has started.

Ceolas, will bump this if I see mears around.

dd1 was breech and the consultant wouldn't even consider letting me have a trial of labour, despite me weeping buckets I was booked for a section . However - dd1 was my first and it was 10 years ago so that might have had an impact. (she turned at the 11th hour btw and I had her naturally).

Actually that's probably sod-all use to you ...

i don't have any experience but Mears posted a link on another breech thread, can't find the thread but here's the link Definately worth looking at as amazing photos! also have a read of Mary Cronk

HTH

Thanks for the responses.

Actually I am terrified of Caesarian.

Would rather have 5 long labours...

wow, those pictures are fantastic.

I was born breach, as was my mother and her mother before her. As a result I have always been concerned that my DCs would be breach. None were. BUT I did have a conversation with the registrar during one of my visits last time, and she said that although the accepted practice HAD been to insist on CS, they now do allow VB. The only problem is because they have, for so long, insisted that breach are born by CS in the majority, there are now so few MWs experienced in MWs that is where the problem is. Also if something does go wrong / need intervention it is more difficult with breach

I have to say - I was still determined to go for VB, and was going to search out a MW. DD was head down for weeks prior though, so I never had to fight for it

Good luck

Those photos are amazing. I have not read much about it but i'd be terrified baby's head would get stuck? Also i thought that babys born breech can have joint problems? My dd has had some appointments with consultants regarding her legs and feet and each time i was asked was she breech. Although she was not.

hiya, sorry no experience of this myself,but if it was me personally i would go for the c-section. id be frightened of something going wrong.hope the baby turns round soon for you, i wish you the best of luck.

Does ecv hurt? I'm also breech and i'm really put off at the idea? This is my dd2 can it distress baby?

If you go to the yahoo forum UKVBACHBAC a lady posted today to tell us of her Breech VBAC!!! look at the thread "plans all going wrong..." and then you could ask that lady for her tips perhaps?...

I definitely would consider it, especially with Mary Cronks opinions on hands off the breech, ie try a breech birth not an extraction and if it doesn't go well then opt for CS.

mother-care.ca/breech.htm I have other links I could post but must go so will add them tomorrow if no-one else has done so.

missyhols, I think that leg and feet problems are associated with being breech in utero, not actually at the point of birth (I have a neighbour whose ds has talipes which was apparently a result of him being breech, though he turned and was delivered naturally in the end).

I recently did some thinking about this and looked at the following pages for positive views on breech births:
www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm

Under NICE guidelines women should have the choice of a vaginal delivery or not if their baby is breech - the trouble is that there aren't enough midwives experienced in proper hands-off breech births. They get training but then that could be it.
As someone has said IMs are likely to have more experience..but my MW is an IM and sh has only done 4, so even she is not so completely experienced for me to feel totally reassured should the need arise.

Mary Cronk is the breech woman, I understand.

Honest answer, hope it doesn't upset you.

My ds1 was an undiagnosed breech, things went very wrong and he was born with a severe brain injury (eventually had a CS)

In my biased opinion, the risk of something going wrong would far outweigh the minor probs of CS (I've had two and in both cases was up and about within 48 hours, albeit uncomfortable). You can quickly get over a CS.

I would be to worried to go ahead with it. C sec does worry me as i have a 20 month old dd already.

Oh god, mumblechum. Sorry to hear about your experience. Need to get a balanced view, though. Thanks.

My DD2 was breech, after 4 non eventful pgs and deliveries. My consultant would not give me the option of a vaginal delivery because there aren't enough MWs experienced in breech deliveries here.

I was petrified of having a CS but do you know what- beats the pain of labour and childbirth . The delivery was calm and peaceful and the recovery nowhere near as bad as I expected.

I think if you want to have a vaginal delivery you've got to find MWs and a consultant who are happy to try. Mine wouldn't and I wasn't desperate enough to fight them.

i had two babies who were still breech late in pg ( about 38 weeks). one turend on his own and one was sucessfuly turned by ECV. It was sore not agony.

Like mumble I wouldnt have considered a breech Vb as we also had a brain injured child ( not injured at birth but it makes you very risk averse)

Mumblechum, I'm so sorry to hear what happened to your ds1. My ds was also undiagnosed breech (full term), my labour v. short and he was too far down the birth canal to consider c-section without risk to me too. His birth was v. distressing (his shoulder got stuck) and he wasnt breathing when he came out. He is absolutely fine now at 4 months, but the doctors couldnt tell us at the time whether he would be or not as they didn't know how long he was without oxygen. That first week he was in SCBU and it was touch and go as all his organs (except his heart) failed due the the trauma and he was convulsing regularly. I am therefore biased and we are so, so lucky that he was not affected by it - if it happened again, I'd have to have a c-section. I couldnt face the same thing occuring.

Does diagnosed or undiagnosed make any difference, do you think?

The difference is that if it's undiagnosed you gaily do what all the books tell you, ie wander around at home for hours on end, not knowing that your baby's heart is slowing down and he's not getting enough oxygen.

Honestly, a CS is absolutely no big deal at all. All that stuff about not lifting, not driving etc is overstated. I was physically fine, though being careful, after two weeks.

Mary Cronk has already been mentioned
Sadly it's the whole intervention part that can make a breech birth so dangerous, if only m/w's were more used to it and used to sit on their hands....
My cousin had her first one vaginally dispite being a Breechbaby, he came feet first, which is apprently the most likely to get complications....all is well
Hopefully your little one will turn all by itself....
Missyhols I think the Joint problems are more down to the positioning whilest in the womb...but might be wrong on that....I know that Babys that are breech with bottom down and legs round their ears can have hip problems...

I can see how someone with such a bad experience as mumble would consider the risk to high....personally, I think I would do everything to avoid a C-section, as to me it wasn't just nothing when I had one...but that is just me...not been in the breech scenario though...saying that I remember my ms being in breechposition at around 35 weeks but a good bout of scrubbing the floors on my hands and knees made him turn...

Hi Ceolas,

Its all down to how much risk you are prepared to take. If you have had 3 good sized vaginal births, there is absolutely no reason why a breech should not go smoothly for you, esp if you have experienced m/w with you. First timers are always going to be higher risk than multips. Leg and hip problems are caused by the position that baby has been lying in, in the uterus, not by the delivery itself (assuming no over-entheusiastic assistance from the docs). Mary Cronk is the guru and if you live in the London area, it might be worth getting your m/w to ask her for some input as I believe she still helps out sometimes.

If you go to hospital you will have to fight all the way to get a VB, as they will still probably try to talk you out of it. If you have the birth in the hospital, it will almost certainly be done by a registrar or consultant, in stirrups, with quite a few 'onlookers' as it is very unusual nowadays due to the flawed results of the 'Term Breech Trial' which recommended c/ sections for breeches.

ECV is worth trying as its usually sucessful in at least 50%, and although its pretty uncomfortable, its not terrible.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Asur - fantastic pics, thanks for the link.

I'm breech and will be trying out the ECV this week at 38 weeks, following lots of alternative treatments too try and turn the baby (moxa, yoga, positioning, swimming, positive thinking, reflexology - all of which felt nice, even if they haven't worked as yet!).

The last obstetrician I saw didn't seem to think that labouring naturally within a hospital environment was a problem (and it's my first) - the stirrups aren't a 'given' any more either. Following the scare mongering with the flawed Term Breech Trial, docs are happier to see women seeing how they go, rather than booking them in for an elective c-section - and they do seem more aware of the 'hands off the breech' delivery method too as augmented deliveries seem to be where the risk creeps in.

The thing to bear in mind is that breech isn't an abnormal presentation - it's just not typical - and women have been delivering babies in this way for eons. I'd prefer to have faith in what my body can do - reiterated by the positive breech births I've read on websites like the Home Birth website - and know that there is medical back-up should I need it.

Am hoping I'll continue to be supported in my choice if my ECV isn't successful. I'll let you know how mine goes - good luck with deciding!

Feeling rather depressed about this. 36 weeks today. All feels the same. Doing the positioning religiously.

Scan on Tuesday and then consultant next Friday if no movement.

Everyone I have mentioned it to seems to think I'd be bonkers to deliver vaginally.

I cam across some statistics (albeit American ) that said there's about 5% complication with breech delivery as opposed to 1% with breech Caesarian.

Is there any other research I can read?