Successful Vaginal Del. After CS First Time?

[009]

Hi I am interested to hear from anyone who had a CS with their first child. I want to know what percentage of mums who have a CS with first baby go onto have a Vag. del. with second. Also would like to hear from mums who planned for a vag. del. with second but ended up having another CS. What happened?

Am trying for second baby. First was crash CS. Wanting to know what my chances are of having a vag del or whether to go for an elective next time and cut out the trauma.

Also NICE guidelines state 96 hours from waters breaking, not 24! An expectant management option could have been considered to watch out for signs of infection with clear guidance given on how to avoid it rather than insisting labour starts within 24 hours....

Ok hadn't heard of Optimal FM but had heard of OP of course. DD was in a 'side to back' postition, very uncomfortable.

Re: the time limit on induction, in the end they didn't induce me within 24 hours as it wasn't convenient. Even after 36 hours they hadn't got a bed for me so sent me home as I was feeling well. But the constant threat hung over me causing me undue distress.

Re: HR dipping. When I was told this was happening my first response was 'isn't that normal?' seemed logical to me. And her HR returned to normal inbetween contractions but the midwife kept saying she was concerned about it.

One of my only questions in NCT antenatal class was regarding 'faetal distress' because it is such a common term used and often the only reason given for a CS. It seems logical to me that DC is going to get a bit stressed during the birthing process so shouldn't some distress signs be expected?

Have been reading the presentation notes from Natural Birth after CS. It is making me feel a bit angry. I always assumed that DD's presentation was entirely coincidental and nothing to do with the process of my labour.

I can really understand why second timers go for an elective. Because to have your birth plan break down is so awful and then the stress and the decisions and the pressure they medical put on you to do what is simplist for them is such hard work when you're shattered and in pain. So this is why I have considered an elective next time. But... I don't want surgery. I've healed well with no complications but it is unpleasant, for me anyway, I know some women sware by CS.

009, many of us who have been through a CS get very angry once we start to research for a VBAC, and then slowly realise that we were very badly let down by the HCPs. It doesn't have to be a choice of elCS to retain control the next time. It can be a VBAC by researching your options, questioning everything and stating your intentions. The HCPs can't actually tell you what to do, they have to ask your permission and if you know that then you can start to make informed choices. It's a shame that we tend to find ourselves becoming a bit militant.... Anyway, I've compiled a resource file of links, the start of which I posted earlier. If you would like me to send you a copy please just say so.

A doula is something that you may still like to consider, although I know you don't think so just now. But did you know that you could contact some near to you and just ask for Birth Choices support antenatally, rather than use the NHS ante natal classes...?

Hi Klaw please send me a copy of the file. I can work my way through it.

I didn't do NHS antenatal classes last time round I did the NCT course. Which TBH I didnt' find at all useful (except that I met a bunch of nice people). Everything covered was the kind of 'easily available' information that one would find in a standard pregnancy and birth book. I really wish we had spent a session looking at the factors which can lead to CS and how to achieve a more natural birth.

Thanks.

Actually what is really buggin me now is that I have increased risks (albeit small) if I go for a VBAC next time because I have a scarred uterus, when actually that scar is probably only there because my labour was mis-managed first time round.

I have supported a number of women antenatally, without being with them for the birth, and helped them research their birth preferences, and write a birth plan, without being their birth doula.... i feel that providing women with assistance to ask for the birth they would like to acheive is a really positive thing, and also debriefing them of their previous births,so that they are not carrying their prvious birth baggage with them into the next labour

a lot of doulas do birth prep, antenatal classes and birth consultancy

www.doula.org.uk will have a list of local doulas, and you can see if someone near you offers that sort of thing....you can email them with no obligation .

i think that it is so important to know why one birth went the way it did, and try to take steps to ensure that a subsequent one goes in a more positive direction.

not to say this is a guarantee, but being informed, and feeling secure in your choices and desires is really a good thing.

so so true klaw
never told you my stories (any excuse )
c section for distress after induction due to pre eclampsia for ds1
vbac for ds2, only an hour in the hosp and total labour of around 5/6 hours, ventouse but hardly even noticed that, was very pleased with it all but the build up was stressful, having to stick to my guns, push consultants to agree etc, no cfm and stayed at home as long as pos to maximise my chances
dd1 was marvellous, home vbac, the best experience ever, doula for support who was marvellous, dh fantastic, mw supportive (still had to get signed off by consultant though but no stress as used to it all by then)
vbac rocks!

Ok hun, actually you could see my resource file here. I'm hoping it's OK to post that...

You'll find a word.doc file attached to the post which you can download also if you prefer.

Ante-natal classes, imho, are only useful for meeting new friends! And you can never have enough friends! Which is why Birth Choices sessions with a Doula may be more useful.

What if I wanted HVBAC? Could my Trust refuse to offer me a midwife service at home if they feel I'm too high risk?

With DS1 I had an emergency section due to poor positioning and failure to progress. With DD2 I decided to go for VBAC and was delighted, and proud, to succeed in this (although during labour I did tell the midwife I had changed my mind and wanted a section after all. Needless to say she talked me out of this)!
I felt a tremendous sense of achievement with the vaginal delivery.
I suffered from extensive tearing and had to be stitched up in theatre. Following this my stitches became infected resulting in several weeks of pain, however, having said that I would still opt for a vaginal birth over a section because of the unforgettable experience of a vaginal birth. In addition, although the early days of recovery in both cases were very painful the long term recovery of a vaginal birth was quicker.
Hope this helps.

It is your right to have a HBAC and if you get hassle from your trust then AIMS are the people to go to. I know quite a few people form my other board who have had HBACs, HWBACs, HBA2Cs...

In fact for many people a HBAC of whatever kind is the only way they can guarantee, in their own minds, the kind of birth they want and can have control over. If they end up tranferring to hopsital they remain in control and are usually very happy with their birth regardless.

check out www.homebirth.org.uk/vbac.htm

and the article on AIMS about Home Birth Bullying

I think a HBAC would definitely be my preference. It is amazing what rumours you here. I was told by someone that after CS you would be refused HB. Such bull shit surrounds the 'law' of child birth.

the 'laws' of childbirth is what keeps us 'demanding' mums in our rightful place

stuck on a bed, in a labour ward, with continous monitoring, and c.s for failure to progress...nothing like a self fulfilling prophecy

if i;d known then what i know now.........

My mum had 4 children and not one labour under 24 hours. We were all born at home. With my bro, her first, she laboured for 4 days before he finally came into the world. Slow, slow labours, they must have been 'ok' back then.

009, I think it sounds as though it would be a really good idea if you got hold of a copy of your birth notes and went through them with somebody - an independent midwife might be worth considering for this if you want to make sure you have an unbiased opinion. Many will do this as a one-off service. For what it's worth, it may be that your last CS was unavoidable - if your baby's head was deeply engaged and your waters had already broken I think the chances of him moving into a better position were very slim. The induction may not have helped, but it also may not have made any difference if you'd been left for longer.

sorry, her moving into a better position.

DaisyOink is right, call your hospital and ask for medical records dept. Get them to send you a form to ask for your birth notes, it will not cost you more than £50, probably less.

I've got both mine and it's amazing how it gave me 'ownership' back for both! And once the brow presentation was confirmed it is generally advisable to CS. But could it have been prevented? Who knows, but you know that next time you can do your best to minimise repeat risk.

It could well be that you labour much like your mum, so have a good chat to her about her experiences and learn from them, especially if her's were entirely normal and natural with little, if any, interference.

If you have any difficulty with the resource file I pointed you to please say.

I don't have a copy of my birth notes but I did ask to see them before leaving hospital. Would be good to see them again though and go through them. Will do that.

DD wasn't fully engaged when my waters broke.

I was only 4cm dilated 60 hours after waters breaking and this was when I was put onto oxytocin drip.

A few hours later I was fully dilated and the midwife discovered DD was in Brow pres. But I didn't go for a CS then. I was given another hour to see if she would move but I was still on the drip and on my back which obviously didn't help. (I didn't know that then though.) I could feel my contractions pressing down on her which caused her to become so stuck. I might be wrong but I think if I had just been at home, moving around, sqatting, crawling then the outcome may have been different. Having said that, I was so enervated from sleep deprivation that I couldn't move around anyway, I was exhausted. That couldn't be helped, it was my own fault that I didn't sleep for 2 nights before the labour really got going. Because my waters had gone and I had regular 'pre-labour' pains (which were no more than bad period pains really) I kept thinking I was in labour and just wouldn't allow myself to sleep. So I think there were a combination of contributing factors.

The thing I have always felt guilty about is that I didn't allow them to do the CS as soon as it was advised (straight after they discovered she was presenting brow.) If I'd had it then it would have been a much more straight forward procedure and my baby would have been born well. Instead I delayed the inevitable for a further 90 mins which meant she suffered considerable oxygen deprivation and subsequently spent her first 5 days of life seperated from me in special care. Plus it was much more of an ordeal for me once it became a real emergency.

Don't beat yourself up with what ifs and if onlys, that's counter productive. What's done is done. Learn from your experience and go on to have a wonderful empowered birth, that's the best thing you can do for yourself and dd. And make sure that you let dd know that she is designed to give birth and give her the strength, self belief and assuredness that she can give birth to your grandchildren without trauma.

(((((009))))))

Why do you have to pay for the notes!?!

Unfortunately I can't discuss my mum's births experiences with her now as she has alzheimers. But they were all intevention free. I remember her saying that my sister was 'turned' while she was still inside. Any idea what that could have been? Also she described her labours as 'dry'. Which is a term you don't hear these days. Anybody know what 'dry labour' is/was?

Not beating myself, just reflecting.

009 - its like reading my experience with DD hearing your first. I'm expecting again too, although only just coming up to 20weeks so haven't seen my consultant.

Having same dilemma/fears. I found the CS experience realy hard but wonder if that was because I was so tired by the time I had the surgery. Am this fuels the fear of repeating the process of trying for a veg del and still not getting there.

But CS so horrible really can't face choosing it.

How far gone are you? Are you with the same trust as before?

Tiredness till an issue I meant vag del!!

Hi Daze. Am not currently pregnant, at least I don't think so. I'm planning for second but am very anxious about child birth a second time. Which is a shame because I was blissfully ignorant the first time and looking forward to the event. Have def. considered not having another but.... would like another one very much.

No I'm with a different trust now as we have moved.

Would really like to hear how it goes for you in around 20 weeks. I hope you get your VBAC.

I had an elective c-section for placenta previa with dd1 and a successful VBAC for dd2 (went into labour naturally, no drugs, home from hospital same day). Have posted at length before so won't repeat myself now, but will just say that I key element in ensuring a successful VBAC for me was avoiding continuous foetal monitoring.