still traumatised from birth

[woodstock]

I had planned (and planned and planned) for a natural birth with my first child. That was probably my first mistake. My waters broke on my due date at about 8:00P.m. which I thought was a good omen. Anyway, labour didn't start right away and the MW told me to try to get some rest or come in by 2:00 p.m. of the next day whichever came first. Labour didn't start until I was on my way to hospital. Long story short, I was in labor for 24 hours, begged to be considered for a c-section at which point the OB came in and discovered ds had been breech the entire time. He was born by section within 30 minutes. I keep trying to get on without thinking about it but ds is now a year old and I am still in counseling and on Zoloft. I am so angry that no one discovered his position earlier. The pediatrician said that, from the position of his legs after birth he had been breech "a very long time and should have been diagnosed". I feel guilty that I did not get a second opinion during pregnancy as I had times that I felt the MW's weren't as thorough as they could have been with my prenatal care. Has anyone had a similar experience?

Lucy R
I can second Shrub re: cranial osteopathy. The children's osteopathic centre in Harley street in amazing - it's a charity so you make a donation. can't recommend in highly enough.

Woodstock - sorry you had such a bad time. I had a similar undiagnosed breech experience with my daughter, now 2. I had seen MW and 2 GP's who told me her head was well engaged, then went into labour which started slowly. When I went into hospital I was checked by a MW who told me I was only 2-3cms dilated and could go home. She said she thought she felt something odd, but checked my notes (which obviously said baby was engaged) then sent me home (even though my contractions were going off the scale on her print out).

Later that night I went back in and was examined a couple more times, by two different MW's. By this time I was in agony, gas and air useless, and asked for an epidural. They gave me one more examination while waiting for anaesthetist and annouced that I was 8cm and she thought she could feel a bum, not a head.

Pandemonium ensued, Registrar etc who told me I would need a CS. I got to theatre just as I felt the need to push, had a quick spinal and dd was born 4 minutes later after a 30 hr labour. My husband said they were all panicky and the room was full of people, obs, paed etc.

I was ill afterwards, had lost just less blood than needed for transfusion, and incredibly sick from the spinal going in too far in their hurry.

DD had dislocated hips as she had been breech for so long, and had to wear a splint for the first 8 weeks, with follow up hospital visits for a year. She's absolutely fine now.

I still feel a bit shocked thinking about it and was completely numb with shock afterwards. I could'nt bring myself to read my notes until the day before my HV was coming to visit and I knew she would be taking them. I felt even more angry because my community MW was due to visit me when I came home (2 days later), and instead I had a locum who was a horrible old retired MW who when I plucked up courage to tell her I felt weepy, said I was just a bit tired. I felt at the time that my MW was deliberately avoiding me as she had mis-diagnosed.

One thing the experience has taught me is the need to be really firm and confident. I am thinking about no2 soon (have just come off the pill) and this time I am going to be stroppy if needs be. I will insist on a late scan, and make sure I feel in control in the labour ward. It's the only way I feel I can contemplate doing it all again.

Sorry this is so long, it's been good just to write it down actually.

Oh, Sophmum it's so kind of you to share such a traumatic experience. I know how you feel about writing about it. Took me forever to get up the courage to do it, but then I did feel better. Also, had the same experience with feeling like MW avoided me after the birth. She had been so kind during the pregnancy but was an absolute beast during labour because things weren't "moving along" - then totally abandoned me afterwards!

Just to let you know if doesnt always go to plan even if they know the baby is breech. My baby had been breech for weeks and I had an appointment for them to try and turn they baby at 38 weeks if that didn't work I was going to be booked in for a CS a few days later.
My waters broke at 36.5 weeks and I went into hospital. I told them the baby was breech and that my first birth had been quite quick. The doctor seemed to be moving in slow motion to me, even the midwife kept telling him they needed to get me the theatre quickly.
As they put me on the table I told them I needed to push, the doctor told me that "No I was having a CS and did not need to push". Luckily the midwife realised what was happening and pushed the panic button. I was petrified as I have a friend whose child was born breech and suffered brain damage. Luckily my daughter was born naturally only a few (extremely painful) minutes later. It was scary for my patner as the baby was blue and I lost a lot of blood.
I was secretly frightened for months that my daughter might have been damaged by the birth, but luckily she is 100% perfect. I suffered from PND this time and I think it was the shock of the birth happening so early especially when we thought for ages that I would probably be having a cs.

A very similar thing happened to me. I had my daughter 6 months ago. Planned to have a home birth but I was already in hospital with pre-eclamptic symptoms. Breech only diagnosed when meconium was noted in perfect condition ie bum must be at entrance of birthcanal. They started saying 'why didn't you say your baby was breech?' but I had no idea !!

I had a c-section due to the breech and the meconium. I was in agony though so I would have said yes to anything. Looking back on it c-section wasn't ideal outcome but when it was suggested I could have kissed the doctor!!

Sophmum
Definitely, DEFINITELY stroppy is the way to go. Couldn't agree more. Had a crying jag this morning because dd's neck problem doesn't seem to be getting much better and her head looked all wonky to me. (see LucyR post below - changed my name, v. confusing)
I also agree about the MW avoiding afterward - no 'sorry, I missed it' or anything.
Am feeling somewhat belligerant this morning.

I was so convinced that if I had received more 'professional' care my experience might not have been half as bad (ie: i believe a simple scan should be performed on any woman with pregnancy complications should be done. This would have diagnosed my breech and artifical labour would not have had to have been induced and then stopped again) and I was so angry that I wrote a letter to the chief executive of my NHS Trust. It didn't achieve much, but it did make me feel a bit better. I got a pathetic letter back from him. I also copied it to NCT as I thought they might be interested, but didn't get any response at all. I do think talking about it does help. And remembering that time does heal.

Does any one know if labour with a breech baby is usually more painful than a regular upside down one? Also do breech babies run in families? Both my mum and grandmum's first babies were breech.

My labour took ages to start after waters broke - a full day. But I was having very irregular agonising pains that doubled me up and lasted about five minutes. ~Was it the baby turning breech???

When labour eventually started I went from 1cm to 8cm in about 2 hours but by 8cm I was screaming. Gas and air - useless. Begged to be killed (this still upsets my husband).

It was all just so much more painful and less manageable than I had been led to believe. And yet I was actually in labour for such a short time.

Also just a quick note to say don't be too quick to judge and bad mouth the medical staff. We are SO lucky to receive the medical attention we do - regular check-ups, scans, pain relief. None of this is a human right. My mum had a breech baby in the 70's - She was in labour for 3 days. Eventual forceps. She cried with pain for the last day and after the birth was unable to walk for a month. My Grandmother had a breech birth in the 40's. Her story is too distressing and upsetting to recount, but she did survive, with NO pain relief.

I think there can be a link to breech babies in families - only because when I told my m/w that both my sister and I were breech babies, her eyebrows shot up and she wrote it in my notes. Having said that, neither sis or I have had breech babies so if there is a link, it can't be a very strong one.

Sorry, but I do think pain relief and proper medical care is our right. We pay for it, for a start.

I agree - it is our right. Also think there is little point in comparing our experiences with those of other generations - the world has changed so much since then.

I also had an undiagnosed breech with my daughter last year.
No doctor or midwife could be sure if my little girl was breech all the way through the pregnancy, at one point I had 2 doctors and 3 midwifes prodding me at a check up but no one suggested a late scan. The poor student midwife got shouted down by the older midwife when she strongly suggested I was breech and I still think of her, doubting her instincts when she was right after all.

I went into Queen Charlottes with contractions and some bleeding ( I was a first timer and thought it was the bloody show -oh how wrong)I'd been bleeding on/off for three days,ignorant of how much danger I was in. So when I turned up at 8cm dilated with bleeding they panicked when the doctor also realised my baby was breech. I was whisked me in for an emergency c-section under a general before my poor husband had even parked the car.

Now I have to say that i was dealt with so quickly that I didn't really have time for the full extent of the danger with an abrupted placenta and breech to sink in.All I had to deal with was a small pin prick in the back of the hand and woke up an hour later with a beautiful baby,no pain (other than normal post op) no panic, just instant baby. I did feel a bit dislocated from the whole birth/baby experience and I'm a girl who had her birthing ball and aromatherapy oils all packed. Once I heard all my friends true birth stories(funny how they never tell you untill afterwards) I'm almost grateful for the quick, fear free birth I had.

BUT no.2 is now due in January, and this time I want no more suprises. I talked through my fears for this birth and all the problems last time with the consultant at my booking in at QC and I'm being scanned regularly all the way through.

My little girl still falls asleep with her feet up by her ears sometimes sucking on her toe, hips all checked and walking fine just very flexible.

There are some v interesting similarities in our experiences that I just had to comment on. Labour took about 16 hours to start after my waters broke. I developed an excruciating muscle spasm in my back which at first I thought was back labour but then was told no, because that does come and go just like regular labour and this was constant - hours and hours and hours.
Lots and lots of bleeding during labour, so much so that they thought I might have placenta previa about 12 hours into it, which at the time didn't occur to me that it was rather late to be wondering about that! And ds also still tends to sleep with his feet up sometimes as well and sucks toe. A future yoga afficienado?

i went 5 days over due date then 4am waters broke... no contractions at first but started within the hour quite mild to begin with went to hospital and was monitored and (tell me if this is normal!?!) was clamped open as though i was having a smear test.. then sent home then contractions were every 2 mins and lasting a long time and seeing as though i live 30min away from hospital i went back in.. was told i was 3-4 cm dilated and was put on ward with women who just had their babies (just what you need when in labour!!) i was given 2 paracetemol and left to it.. in mean time it was mentioned to me that if baby not made apperance with 24 hrs of waters going baby would be likely to get infection. got chatting to a woman opposite me who was pregnant and she wasnt in labour but had been brought in 2 wk before her due date to be induced as said she having a big baby... i was left she was took and induced even though my baby prone to infection if not born within the next 10 hrs. she ended up having her ds 8 hrs earlier than me!!! wouldnt you think they would have induced me because of my baby???still was left to it had the ward, cleaner checking on me!!! because i was moaning at this stage (8pm) no midwifes about... kept asking to examined was told no... kept asking for gas and air was told no!!!..buzzed midwife because i was now in horrific pain (11pm) didnt come for 30min (could have been pushing or anything!!) finally given gas and air (2am)in mean time was left alone as sent my dp home after visiting hrs over at 7pm!!!! finally rang him to come back in at 2am after much nagging!!! one midwife was covering all wards kept leaving me.... was very rough pushing hard on my stomach with monitoring pads (was ready for punching her lol) finally took up to delivery suite at 4am wanted epidural told now it too late!!! given pethidine...had drip put in back of thumb!!!(never seen this before) which didnt work so then put it in back of hand.. told to push (7am) midwife was due to change over so left me at 7.45am and 2 students came in (found out that both were student afterwards!!!) no qualified midwife.. pushing with feet on each midwives hips one was heavily pregnant did not feel comfortable AT ALL!!!wasnt told to ease off pushing or pant and dd shot out like a rocket at 7.53am.... suffered 3rd degree tear dd was 8lb 13oz.. "repaired" on bed linen i just gave birth on i.e blood everywhere when should have been done in theatre gave me spinal block and took them an hr to repair... didnt hold my dd for 1.5 hrs after she was born she was left across room in the cot thingy!!!so dd was born 28 hrs after water broke luckily didnt have infection..... but what a joke the whole thing was!!!!

lilsmum - you have had a horrendous experience and have grounds for complaint.

Let me reassure you about a couple of points. The xeamination you describe is a speculum examination which is like a smeat teast. It is done to see whthere there is a pool of liquor (water) at the cervix which confirms that the waters have actually broken. Often a swab is taken at this time too.
Lots of units have a policy of inducing after 24 hours ( we do) but that is going to change in our unit soon. It is much better to go into labour naturally than be induced and as long as the pregnancy itself is fine, research has shown it is safe to wait 72 hours before induction which means baby will be born within 96 hours of waters breaking. If mum develops a temperature however, antibiotics and induction should be considered.

You grounds for complaint are being left to deliver with 2 student midwives. Also the practice of putting a woman's feet up on midwives hips is a breach of health and safety for both the woman and the midwife. It is a position that is banned in the RCM (Royal College of Midwives) booklet on Safer Handling in midwifery. It causes back pain for midwives and can cause pelvic pain in women. It is also associated with tears as the sacrum (lower back bone) cannot move back to allow space for baby to pass through. I personally raised awareness of this issue in my own unit and got the practice stopped.
I have posted on your other thread in response to your questions.
I would advise that you write a letter of complaint to the Head of Midwifery. The care you received was appalling. You should have been in the labour ward at 4cm. Even if they had a staffing problem there, you should have received more care than you got on the ward. By complaining you will improve how they do things in the future.

lilsmum, what a horrible experience. My MW acted like it was such an inconvenience that I was progressing slowly that I do sympathise with feeling rather abandoned. I did actually get an infection with my waters being ruptured for so long and all. I was on IV antibiotics for 3 days and my feet got huge! I mean, they were already big, but with that it was fairly frightening. Definitely write a complaint. It will feel panicky at first to write it all down, but as you've already done it on MN that will help and I think you will feel better after.

Want to talk trauma? I was supposed to be induced as I was 3 plus weeks over. My GP arranged the induction with the Ob/gyne registrar and sent me straight there. When I got there, they refused to induce me because I wasn't overdue enough - they said that by two weeks over, your body will go into labour on it's own anyway, and it was the friday before a public holiday, so they weren't fully staffed. They sent me home.
At 2.30 am on the Monday morning, I woke with contractions 5 mins apart, lasting one min. waited. At 8 am, I lost my mucous plug. I laboured at home until at 4.30pm I had a blood show. I rang the hospital who told me I could come in if I wanted to.
I arrived at hospital at 8pm, was given two panadeine forte and told to lie down. I later found out that this was because I was handling labour so well, they didn't think I was in labour. At 1.30am, I still wasn't asleep so the midwife decided to do a VE. At 2am, I was 8cm dialated. She offered to break my waters and I asked her if there were any other options. We did the hot shower/nipple stimulation/ pelvic rocking deal, which brought my contractions to two minutes apart, lasting 1.5-2 minutes.
At 4am, she broke my waters, and told me I would have to push hard because he was coming out forehead first. I felt the need to push, and after 2.5hrs of pushing, had progressed no further. By now I had been in labour for 28 hours.
She decided intervention was required and went off to get the doctor (who happened to be the Ob/gyne registrar from the Friday beforehand). The first thing he did was apologise for not inducing me on the Friday. He said he had meant to.
This is the point at which everything took a turn for the worst.
He told me he would do a VE. He didn't tell me that he was going to stick all his fingers up me and very painfully try to manouvre the babys' head so that he was coming out crown first. This unsuccessful attempt was so painful that I screamed and cried and vomited.
It was at this point that they offered one of two things - continue labour and hope for the best, or have a mild epidural and syntocinin, whch would increase the strength of the contractions.(the doctor did not explain to me th risks of syntocinin, which are hypersensitivity, tonic uterus and uterine rupture). I agreed that after so many hours of drug free labour, I was too tired to continue on my own.
I was given a Pethedine injection and laid down while they organised the anaesthetist.
When the anaesthetist arrived, there was a shift change and two new midwifes came in - one a senior, one a student. I said I didn't mind a student being present (I wish I had minded, though - it would have saved me alot of heartache.)
The anaesthetist explaained the epidural procedure and told me it could be increased as the syntocinin was increased, so that I would still want to push, but woould be able to cope with the increased intensity of the contractions.
After the epidural was administered, the student midwife 'accidentally' overdosed me on syntocinin. This resulted in my uterus becoming tonic (contracting stronger than normal and not relaxing). My blood pressure dropped, and my babys' heart rate dropped to 70bpm, wich they didn't pick up on, because they thought it was my heartbeat. After 15 mins, they realised what had happened, and told me if they didn't ceasar, my baby would die. They gave me a ventolin injection to reverse the syntocinin, and asked me to sign for the caesar. It took 8 mins from signing to delivery. He was delivered at 9.23am after 30hours and 45mins of labour
I had to stay in hospital for five days, and was given anticlotting drugs that made my nose bleed - I have never before in my life had a nose bleed.
Because it all happened so fast, I have no photos of me son being delivered, and I didn't get to hold him until that night.
The hospital now wants to know if I plan to sue.

I've copied this in from another thread (would have done a link but don't know how). This is my account of my first labour. I've been pretty shocked by other people's experiences too, since joining mumsnet. I'd be interested to know whether anyone successfully pursued a complaint against their hospital - I didn't have the balls I'm afraid.

Anyone who has already read my very LONG and detailed post on my other thread about terrible childbirth, please skip this!!

soniabailey - I know exactly the kind of VE you refer to in your post. I screamed like a stuck pig and nearly passed out.

I had gestational diabetes from 24 weeks and had to inject insulin twice a day, and got pre-eclampsia at about 26 weeks. I was in a wheelchair from 16 weeks with unusually severe SPD - the consultant who examined me before induction said I could expect to feel like a woman giving birth with a broken pelvis. I was admitted to hospital at 29 weeks and kept in until they induced me at 35, then another week because DS1 was in intensive care. At 30 weeks they showed me a baby weighing about 2lb fighting for his life, and told me to prepare myself (in the end he was 8lb7, because diabetes makes babies bigger. When I burst into tears after seeing the little baby, the midwife sniggered and said "not so keen to get it over with now, are you?" They made me feel as though I was going to be the worst mother in the world. I went into spontaneous labour at about 32 weeks and they had written in my notes that it shouldn't be stopped because my pre-eclampsia was so advanced, and I had had the steroid injections to mature the baby's lungs. Then a doctor came in and blackmailed me in front of my parents and husband to take a labour-retarding drug by saying that if I didn't I would be in a coma in two hours. My dad was in tears. Then one of the midwives told us it was because her colleague had given me a blood-thinner which they were suposed to have stopped giving me, because there was more than a 50% chance of my needing a C-section and I could have bled to death. The consultant came in in the morning and said that my husband and I were liars and that I had never been in labour, that the drug the doctor had given me was to reduce blood pressure.

I couldn't turn over in bed without help, I was in agony, I was vomiting and had an almost permanent headache. The midwives took the p*ss out of my weight/appearance with the PET oedema and alternated between shouting at me for trying to get out of bed (eg to use the toilet) and sending the ancillary staff in to tell me that if I didn't get up I wouldn't get fed. They were openly contemptuous of my wanting my husband around and were very rude to my family.

During the actual birth - it was 24 hours long after having had no decent sleep for weeks. I was hooked up to monitors and a drip so was not allowed to move off my back for the entire 24 hours despite this position being commonly recognised as agony for SPD sufferers. I was shouted at for making a fuss and called a "diva", laughed at for wetting the bed, and when the time finally came to push the baby out the midwife said "If you don't make more effort you're going to kill your baby" and then scolded me for screaming in pain.

DS1 came out blue and floppy with the cord round his neck so was resuscitated and taken to ICU. I remember sitting on a metal bedpan in agony sobbing my heart out for about half an hour waiting for the placenta, then when it didn't come a midwife yanked on the cord and it snapped. The I started to bleed, everywhere. They rushed me to theatre and I thrashed about refusing point blank to let them touch me without giving me a general anaesthetic - I know it's not wise, but I had just had enough. A male doctor leaned down and said into my ear "No, childbirth isn't easy is it?" and then they put the mask over my face.

When I woke up I was covered in blood, someone was sponging my thighs, and someone put a Polaroid in my hand. I thought the baby had died. Then dh came in and enlightened me. I demanded to be taken to see him ,and a nice young midwife said she would take me but I musn't tell anyone because she would lose her job for moving me. I saw DS1 briefly and went back to recovery. Then they moved me back up to the ward. In the morning two midwives came in and accused me of rejecting my baby and not caring about seeing him. I didn't say I had already seen him because I didn't want to betray the trust of the other midwife. I asked if I could see him now, and they said I would have to get up and walk. I explained that I hadn't walked for six months and was recovering from a general anaesthetic, and suggested dh take me in the wheelchair. One of the midwives said "You can't be selfish now, you've got a baby". I tried to walk and collapsed in a pool of blood and vomit in the corridor. Two days later the paediatrician in charge of my son remarked that I looked like a vampire and was about to collapse. I was then offered a blood transfusion, which I took - they wrote in the notes that I had requested a transfusion!!! They also banned my husband from going into the neo-natal unit to see our son, because he had been delivering my expressed milk to the fridge for me and they thought it would be more fun to make me walk there myself, in pain.

I had another baby at the same hospital 2 years later. That's another story. Suffice it to say I won't be having any more children, which is a pity, because dh and I wanted a large family.

Appalling!! Which hospitals were you two at?

I am in Australia, and have decided to take legal action against the hospital. But get this - I can't sue for medical negligence because my son and I haven't suffered any loss or injury. What a load of bull!
So I am suing the individual doctor who did the VE and approved the use of syntocinin, and suing the student midwife (who is a Registered Nurse) for overdosing me.
Also, the solicitor I am using says that an unnecessary caesarian is loss and injury enough, as I would have had a vaginal delivery if they hadn't have overdosed me.
As for meanoldmummy - Oh my God - you should take legal action. There is no way medical staff should be allowed to treat you that way. I really feel for you, and I am sorry that you won't be having any more children.

Best of luck with your case, Sonia. I really hope you get the result you deserve for yourself and your son, and that it helps you put the whole disaster to rest. It's not a very nice thing to live with, is it?

I can't even think about ds1's birth without shaking, and I have virtually blocked ds2's. And I have got lots of other unrelated crap on my plate atm too. I don't think I am really ready to start fighting anyone. I know I should, for the sake of other women. But I think you're really brave and I hope you win.