Anyone had a breech baby manually turned by ECV? Was it grim?

[Cakehead]

I'm 34 weeks pregnant and my baby has been breech for the last two months. Today I've been given an appointment to discuss turning the baby by 'external cephalic version' in two weeks time. I've heard horrible things about this - that it can be distressing for the baby and very uncomfortable, plus I've just read it only works in 50% of cases. Has anyone had this? Can I say no to it, if I want to? Obviously want to do what's best for the baby but really don't like the sound of this.

Is you baby's head engaged yet? I only ask because it makes a big difference in how to manage a breech gently.

And have just remembered that acupuncture seems to have good results in turning babies without any risk. I'm not trying to put you off the external cephalic version. It's just that although I have never had to do this myself, I know that there are a number of things that can be done before resorting to ECV, mostly involving being on all fours with your bum in the air. Also I know someone whose baby started turning at 38 weeks (and succeeded) while she was at the swimming pool with her toddler. She had labour type pains for a while- Ouch, but yeay!

Also, you can give birth to a breech naturally (is it your first?), and are perfectly in your rights to refuse ECV, as you are with any medical treatment. It was largely out of fashion when I had my children due to the effects that you mention, but might be worth considering as a "last resort" measure.

My last child born 3 years ago was breech until term. I found out at 38 weeks and was offered a "turn" but just couldn't bear the thought of it. I just imagined it would be horribly painful but don't really know.
They didn't mention a natural breech birth and I wouldn't have considered this either as for me too risky.
The baby actually turned on the day of the caesarean when I was almost 40 weeks (was breech in the morning, had my catheter in, gown on and ready to go to theatre when they did a last minute scan) so don't give up hope yet.
Sorry to say this, but a few months ago I did read an article in the newspaper about a midwife who turned a breech baby close to term resulting in tragic consequences for the baby due to cord becoming twisted.
I'm sure this is extremely rare but thought I would mention it.

It's my second baby - first one was very well-behaved... The midwife hasn't actaully confirmed if the baby's engaged. Today at the hospital she started by saying 'Oh yes, the head's down...' then started to realise it was a bottom not a head she was feeling. They did an ultrasound to confirm. I've felt as though I've been carrying low the last week or so - did so last time, too. Lot of pressure on my bladder. The baby's been in this position for two months, and I'm carrying very neatly, so I'm not sure there's much room in there..

I've posted extensively on this before, so might be worth doing a search for ECV. There are a lot of horror stories on ECV, mainly by people who haven't had one, or remember the kind of baby turning that used to be carried out before ultrasound and fetal monitoring was available.

The 50% statistic is averaged over all pregnancies -- the success rate is generally lower in first pregnancies (because you still actually have stomach muscles) and higher in subsequent ones.

The baby will be monitored before the procedure, for quite a long time, and they will use ultrasound to check the baby's position and that of the placenta and cord. The baby will be monitored afterwards for an hour or so. They should have a protocol stating clearly how they perform the procedure (whether or not they use uterine relaxing drugs, how many people they have to do the ECV, how long they will try for if the baby is reluctant to turn) and you can ask to see this.

It should not be agony, nor should it have a high complication rate. Ask your centre how many ECVs they do and what the rate of complications is. At my hospital (central London teaching unit) they reckoned on doing an average of 2 ECVs a week, and the last time they'd had to do an emergency caesarean as a result was 4 years ago. Not bad odds, particularly since if successful you stand as good a chance of an intervention-free deliver as any other woman, compared with the near-certainty of a caesarean if you go into labour with a diagnosed breech.

Frogs that's really good advice - thanks for suggesting those questions.

Hope it's encouraging, Cakehead. My ECV really, really wasn't that bad -- the worst thing about it was the drip they put you on to soften the uterine muscles, which makes your heart slightly racey and your face a bit flushed. I am as wussy as the next girl with medical procedures, but just as I was gearing up to make a slightly noisy fuss, they stepped back and told me it was all over. It was uncomfortable, but in no way agonisingly painful. Particularly if it enables you to avoid major abdominal surgery.

Both the GP and the hospital told me not to listen to the horror stories, and that ECVs today in a centre which has good experience of them are in no way comparable to the kind of amateur turning by GPs or midwives that used to go on until the 70s and that gave the procedure such a bad reputation.

hth

I had ECV with DD in 2005 at 39 weeks (so not in the dark ages of medicine!) I found it more painful than full on labour! My baby was fully bum in pelvis though so they had to dig her out. I just lay there and cried throughout the procedure, which lasted for about 10 minutes if I remember correctly.

I had an expert consultant carry out the procedure and it was successful. I was given the drip to relax my muscles which was fine - if a little odd feeling. The baby was monitored during and for about 40 minutes after. I also was given Anti-d as I am Rhesus negative. In retrospect I would never, ever have this done again. DD did not engage afterwards, went 2 weeks overdue, had to be induced and then ended up with a c-section anyway as she got stuck.

I am not saying this as a "horror story" but you asked for people's experiences and I know of 2 other people personally who also found it excruciating. Not everyone is as lucky as Frogs....

No, I appreciate all the different takes on it, to be honest. Instinctively I don't like the sound of it, but I would much rather avoid a CS if I could. I think I'm going to have to track down that bum-in-the-air exercise and see if I can get the baby shifted in the next week or so. Thanks for the responses.

I'm sorry, I realised that I asked the most monumentally stupid question earlier. I meant to ask if the baby's bottom was engaged. Doh!

Just that you can disengage it again by spending time (a lot of it) on all fours with your bottom in the air.

had mine at 37wks with DD in 2005(first pregnancy) - consultant very experienced in them & had a 80% success rate. (worth asking about this)

he turned her within a minute & said "that was far too easy, I've never had one turn back before, but I think you might be my first" and he was right, she turned back breech 2 days later

the ECV was mildly uncomfortable, but it didn't (and shouldn't) hurt (the worst bit was being without food & water, just in case they needed to do a cs)

so was booked for an elective c/s, went for my pre-op appt at 38+6 & said to m/w I think this baby has turned head down as of yesterday as the kicks have moved. She was very dismissive, saying there was no way baby would turn again so late...until she palpated me...and then sent me for a scan to check...and I was right, so babies can & do turn very late. (DD wasn't small either - 8lb8.5oz)

so in terms of the procedure I wouldn't be worried about having it again, but not sure I would as maybe my babies just want to make their own mind up when to turn head down

Cakehead, ask how long they will try for if the baby is reluctant to turn. RedFraggle's experience sounds horrendous -- the protocol at my unit stated that they would try for a maximum of two minutes before abandoning the attempt.

I had it done and would never ever have it done again. They tried for 30 seconds each time to move him and it was extremely extremely painful and I was very upset. I was offered tea and toast afterwards but instead wolfed the nurses' chocolates (from the nurses' desk) - I must have eaten a lot because she wrote that in my notes! Then i tried acupuncture with moxa sticks (start this as early as possible) - my house stank like an opium den...had a c-section in the end...

Moxa is crazy stuff -- okay for a summer baby when you can do it in the garden, but not so great in December. People say it works, though.

I've never had one but would go for a breech vaginal birth over a c-section. Apparently there are a couple of things in homeopathy that are supposed to work to turn babies but I can't remember what they are.

I think maybe pulsatilla?

Frongs, they haven't said how long they'd try for. Look at other hospital guidelines, ten minutes seems to be normal - some say longer. I'll have to ask when I see the consultant. Think I'm having I'm having a chat about it first, then we make the appointment for a day or so later.

pulsatilla and moxibustion are natural ways to help turn a breech tips on here!

I was told they would try until the uterine relaxant wore off or I said "no more". Yes Frogs it was horrific, but I have friends who have had equally horrendous experiences so I know I am not an isolated case... Possibly if I had been able to have a normal birth after all that I might be a bit more ok with the idea of ECV. I think though that my DD just wasn't ready to come out.
Cakehead, just a thought but, there is still plenty of time for your baby to turn by itself. I was breech with this baby up until about 33 weeks and then it just turned and lots of people on here have written about their babies turning up to 38 - 39 weeks.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

No expereince with ECV (my consultant wouldn't tryit with my breeched DS1, said there was no room).

I was insistent to try for a antural delivery. The consulatant and midwifes at my hospital were very surportive and said I could have a 'trial of labour' as long as I went into labour naturally before 40w. The hed of midwifery even changed her rotas to ensure that a senior midwife wwas always on duty when I was due (younger ones don't have sufficient experience of breech deliveries). She introduced me to all of her senior staff etc etc and was generally superb.

As it was I went into labout naturally and after 9 hours had failed to progress so had a CS anyway.

As you have previously had a vaginal delivery they will be happy to support you as your pelvis had been 'tested'. One of the problems withbreech is that the pelvis is sometimes not wide enoguh and the baby is half delivered before the big bit gets stuck and it is harder to extract the baby with a CS. You know your pelvis can hatch a head so this risk is minimised.

Personally I have no belief in any of the acupuncture and alternative therapies. I did spend a lot of time waving my arse in the air but to no avail.

Ds was breech until 38 weeks. He had been breech throughout the whole pregnancy and the hospital only considered an ECV when I got to 37 weeks. I agreed to the ECV and made an appointment for a week later.

In fact I made an accupuncture appointment for a couple of days before the ECV - I figured it couldn't hurt. I had one treatment and did a further one on my own at home.

When I went for the ECV appointment three days after the accupuncture the scan showed ds had turned round. Even if the accupuncture didn't work (which it might not have I know) ds still turned round at 38+3 weeks and it was my first pregnancy - so it is possible.

My first baby was manually rotated,dont think this is the same thing,but as i had an epidural for the first one i didnt feel a thing,just was well as ended up with forceps..3rd baby was breech,it was decided i would deliever her natually,went home and on all fours swinged my hips side to side,she did turn but dont know if what i did helped..good luck..But if you dont feel happy about anything dont do it,they cant force you..

I had a similar experience to RedFraggle. 38 weeks, very experienced consultant, maximum 2 minutes trying to turn the baby and very very painful.

I don't think it's distressing for the baby- as others have said I was monitored before and after- and you can say no to it. I was offered the choice of trying ECV or just booking a CS.