Elective C-Section at Chelsea Westminster: NHS vs Kensington Wing

[flatsearch8]

Dear moms those who's recently had a planned C-Section in Chelsea Westminster Hospital at either NHS or Kensington Wing please help!

I am in agony after I've met Mark Johnson and Nick Wales during my recent A&E NHS hospitalization at 32 weeks, and later Keith Duncan at Kensington Wing and all 3 said that I shall have ELCS following a traumatic 1st labor.

(The 1st one was at UCLH via NHS and was horrible. The birth itself was messed up by midwifes who broke my waters and put me in swimming pool for 3h where contractions stopped completely and both me and the baby got an infection. Then with baby distress and me having 39C fever they transferred me to operations theater for EMCS which I resisted and ended up with 3b tear, episiotomy and forecepts and baby being taken to NICU for Xrays, etc. and both of us being put on antibiotics for a week. The recovery was 6m long and painful with bowel urge and flatulence and I am still having pain from sex and don't enjoy it that much anymore. The after-care was also terrible with one midwife yelling at me for spilling urine that ran over the paper bowl that she gave me - that's after >36h in labour, .1h spent on stitching me up and being fit with a painful urine catheter for a couple of days! Also had to stay on a very hot, noisy and poorly cleaned 6-women ward for the first 3 days as private rooms were not available).

So, after spending 3 nights at CWH NHS Ward lately I've reflected on my NHS UCLH experience and got rather nervous about a bunch of inexperienced 20y.o. midwifes and "doctors" who look like children to me and often talk cluelessly about pregnancy matters and other medical issues. In 6 shifts I saw just 1 midwife looking ~40y.o. who appeared trustworthy to me.

While I was staying in a private en-suite room due to flu, I could hear couple of midwifes coughing all night long at their station and in the corridor w/o any mask on - and they were attending to moms with newborn babies and pregnant women hospitalized with various complications.

Also, my room was not cleaned before I was put there with dirty surfaces throughout and filthy dirty fridge. I had to get gloves and Clenex wipes outside the room myself and clean it all! Also, I had to demand a cleaner to come by 2nd day stay to clear the trash bins that were full over the top. The one that came threw trash bags (thankfully new ones) on my pillow and looked angry when I objected it and demanded a new pillow case.

Meeting Mark Johnson was very pleasant as he sounded very credible and experienced in more than just obstetrics - despite the scary (for me personally) news that I shall have a planned C-Section this time round.

So, I felt very enthusiastic at first hoping that since it w.b. a planned operation and he's advised on it he would do it himself. But then as I started to research the topic I figured that, unless you have a serious complication, you are utmost likely to be operated by an Intern with Consultant just signing of the papers, i.e. often not even being in the operations theater during the procedure.

I am scared to bits of being cut by some overworked or sick trainee or one for whom it would be his 1st surgery ever. - I've really had enough with my 1st delivery at UCLH.

So, I am now turn b/w taking chances with CW NHS and going to Kensington Wing.

For us £15K is a large amount of money that we're saving to buy a flat but we do have it. Also, my insurance said if the medical reasons are those that they accept as valid they'd cover ~£4k.

So, please help with your experiences on either side (or both!)!!!

Oh, and my insurer said that they only have Keith Duncan (but not Nick Wales or Mark Johnson) registered with them. So, any comments on particular OB would also be great!

Thanks

To add I did go and look around the Kensington Wing as I was thinking about whether to transfer there post delivery for child 2, but the costs were just too high. You can have a tour of the NHS maternity wards as well. They do have private rooms as I was in one for a time on ante natal ward as I had a long stay and it was free, but usually it's e.g. mothers having twins who get priority for those.
If you are saving for a flat and would rather keep your £15K than not then why not start NHS as you can decide after your delivery to transfer to the Kensington depending how you are getting on and at least you'll have saved yourself those costs.

My elective c section, the earliest they said to me they would do it was at 38 weeks but also happy for me to wait longer. This is because, my consultant said, new research had shown it was better for baby, and so earlier than that would only be because of medical need. In the end we went for 38+6 as that was a Thursday and in case I was bumped by emergencies I didn't want to keep going all over the following weekend. I don't think you can have an elective at the weekend.

TootsieWantsToRelocate:

Could you pls PM with particular names you're referring to?

I did try to google as much as I could on the 3 consultants I've met and it looks like whoever used them felt totally over the moon.

I've picked up on just 1 case that happened 6 years ago on NHS ward and re-emerged in the news recently involving one of the doctors I've met and he explained to me during a consultation his part of the story as I've asked about it directly.

Now I wonder if you've seen more stories than I've found.

artichokehearts:

Thank you for your thoughts!

Do you know who's done your CS and which OB advised on 38 weeks plus? - maybe we can put together a team profile here on MumsNet as I am sure there would be more women looking for that same info:))).

I've stayed on Josephine Barnes ward recently with flu and PE suspicion. I was in a private en-suite room to the left of their reception due to my infectious status. The room itself was no worse than Kensington Wing ones - just not cleaned after the previous patient. Is that the room type/location you are referring to? - I thought it is what you can get for £300p.n. if it's available on the day.

I've just been googling my consultant and seems he is retired now or is perhaps just teaching. The other names all look familiar. Yes, I luckily got a private room on Josephine Barnes at a time they weren't busy. This is NHS, didn't pay and no one asked me to pay. When I was in the ante natal bays and got chatting to the others in there they were under different consultants so I'd see the consultants on their ward rounds. Caught up with various ladies in post natal and all seemed happy with medical care and their consultants. Some naturally had concerns because of their babies being ill and needing further care / operations and this was why they were under consultant care in their pregnancies. Obviously your consultant comes to check on you in post-natal. If you're under consultant care then you are also under a team of highly trained midwives - the Maple team - as well. I would say that my experience of midwives was more mixed than doctors but I found that if you reminded them kindly what you're specific needs were this was best because once you are in the ward you're meeting new midwives each shift and if its a busy night - numbers wise - they are having a hard time of it. I was lucky after my elective 2 time around to have the whole recovery bay to myself for the rest of the night - I think it has 5 beds? So basically had the midwives all to myself. I slept very well!!

PS If you've spent time on Josephine Barnes then you'll have the best idea what the NHS ward care is first hand very recently. So you can decide if an upgrade to Kensington is worth it for you.

PS My consultant was Prof Phillip Steer. Were he still active I would have no hesitation in recommending him 110% and indeed I felt very lucky and fortunate to be under his care but generally also within the team as all the doctors I had dealings with were excellent.

I live in Manchester and so far removed from being able to afford private maternity care so not sure I can be much help but could you have the ELCS on the NHS Ward then move to the private section for your post-natal care? As someone said earlier, the NHS delivery ward is extremely good but post natal care poor (which, in both my experiences of emergency c sections on NHS I unfortunately can agree). That might save you a fair bit?

I really wish I hadn't read this thread. I'm due to have an ELCS at C&W in 4 days time, on the NHS as can't afford Kensington Wing. Had to fight to get it approved and have similarly heard that the postnatal ward is grim.

OP, if you can afford it, I would book Kensington now, as all of the NHS private/amenity rooms are currently closed for refurbishment (info correct as of yesterday when I asked at my check-up). The only way of getting a private room is to pay the £1000 per night for Kensington on the chance that they have a room available on the day, or to go private throughout.

MrsMcW:

"Closed for refurbishment"?! - shocking as I've heard they were just done up some 2 years ago. And if it's one of those rooms I've been recently hospitalized at at Josephine Barnes ward, then even more weird as it looked all modern and slick (apart from failing hot water and poor cleaning). The Ken. Wing ones at £1,095p.n. are much older and no bigger - that's why I am having a hard time digesting the idea of going private after having a tour.

For the delivery cost that Ken. Wing charges as well I just can't come up with £7,435 figure that they ask for (surgery theater + midwife + 1 night stay) no matter how much I round up the costs. It sh.b. ~£3k based on my calcs. But Supply-Demand function must be pushing it so much higher.

So, I am waiting to hear from my insurance if they'd co-pay anything meaningful or nothing at all for it's hard for me to swallow so much £ in absolutely unjustified costs.

Also, going back to NHS, some moms here said that there are some free rooms available with priority being given to multiple births and complications. But if you're lucky and those don't take place on your day, you may get one if you ask straight away, right?

Also, a matter of luck with your neighbors in case you're stuck in the 6-women ward. I've had bad experience at UCLH but you may get totally different social circle here at RBKC. Many moms of my son's classmates gave birth at CWH on NHS and they are all very nice/respectful families that you'd rather enjoy having around.

Out of curiosity, why was it hard to get ELCS? - I was told by MJ to have one straight away after mentioning my prior 3b tear and large baby.

You don't know the name of the person who'd be performing your CS, do you?

At the end, as long as you and baby are safe and the wound heals well w/o any infection it's all can not be so bad at NHS. We forget quickly 3 sleepless nights.

As others are advising on this threat, try to get personal help from husband, or mom, or doula in case if midwives are overstretched as that to me is a big thing.

Wish you all the luck.

If you get a minute while recovering from CS, pls let me know how did it go and who's operated you. (May be PM w.b. better).

GreenMeercat,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. There are quite a few moms agreeing with you on NHS delivery + private aftercare combo if you are not very rich as I am.