Scar not healed properly: AWFUL CONSULTANT: feling very depressed: PLEASE HELP!

[MrsTittleMouse]

I've posted on my painful episitomy scar before, so here's a brief synopsis of my story:-
I had an OP DD, and wanted to deliver naturally so had a VERY active labour in a MW led birthing centre with a MW who was very keen to help me deliver naturally. DD however did not turn and got stuck. I pushed for 2 hours, but the MW was concerned that DD was in distress and I was transferred to the consultant high-risk unit.
At this point I had done everything I could, and wanted a CS, to avoid an instrument birth and damage to DD and me. This didn't happen, because I was in so much pain that I couldn't stand up for myself and DH thought that if we didn't do what the OB wanted then DD would die, so I was brow-beaten into ventouse. I didn't want an episiotomy and told the OB this.
After the birth when I was being sewn up, I was told that I had a 2nd degree tear, but I am certain that this was a lie and I had an epi (MW who examined me agreed with this).
The wound had no obvious problems (no infection etc), but has always been painful. It's uncomfortable to stand for long periods as it aches. I can "feel" that area almost all the time. Sex is impossible, as when we try penetration it's really painful. So my GP referred me to a GYN.
OK (long!) synopsis over!
I am really unhappy with the GYN. There are two problems, one that he treated me badly, and the second that the treatment options that he offered are both miserable. He might be right that this is all that can be done, but I'm not sure of that, as he was so dismissive of me.
When he examined me, I was telling him that it hurt when he put in the speculum or put any pressure on the epi side of my vagina, but he didn't stop or slow down, and he wasn't sympathetic or reassuring at all. I steeled myself and forced myself to relax my pelvic floor, but I feel that because I allowed the exam he felt that I was OK.
He told me that I don't have a band/rung of bad scarring, which is right, it's like a line up my vagina towards my cervix. He said that if he hadn't hear me say that it was painful that he would have thought that I was OK, which made me feel that he didn't believe me that it really is painful.
His diagnosis was that because he could force the speculum in that I had enough capacity (OK), and that he felt that my pain was due to a thrush infection and anxiety. I told him that I didn't get anxious about standing or twisting that pulled on my perinium, but he didn't take any notice of that.
HE THEN SAID THAT BECAUSE HE COULD INSERT TWO FINGERS INTO MY VAGINA IN THE "RELAXED SITUATION OF THE EXAMINATION ROOM" THAT I WAS FINE TO HAVE SEX!!!!! I am so angry with that comment:
I told him all through the exam that it hurt.
I am more bloody relaxed with my lovely DH than I am with a complete bloody stranger!
DH is a damn sight bigger than two fingers and can't push upwards on my vagina to avoid putting pressure on the scar.
So, onto the options I was given:
He did offer surgery, but told me that he would have to restitch in such a way that I would be like a "hammock" (anyone know about this?), and could have loosening at the entrance. He told me that the inside would be OK, but the entrance is the tightest and most sensitive part of me, so I'm nervous about that. He also said that in 5% of cases it doesn't stop the pain.
The only other option is manual massage by me, which I have tried and is really sore.
I have tried to go and see the MW at my GP, but she's on holiday and I can only talk to her on the phone on Friday morning, when I'm busy. So it'll probably be next week before I can even find out if she has time to sit down and listen to me and work out if anyone can help. DH is fine with us going private to get a 2nd opinion, but how would I do this?
I want to complain about the GYN, but I'm scared that I'll be labelled as a "neurotic patient", especially as he thinks that it's all in my head already.
I'm terrified that there IS nothing else that can be done and that my sex life is ruined forever.
PLEASE HELP.

Sorry to hear you are having a horrid time

How long ago did you have your baby?

To go private you simply go to your GP and say I would like a referral to a private gynae.
Usually they want you to tell them who you want to be referred to or they can suggest someone.
Do you have insurance?

Message withdrawn

can only echo summerfruit, how appalling!

Thank you. It's so nice that someone is sympathetic and doesn't think that I'm making it all up, or just too nervous to have sex.
DD is now 6 months.
We don't have medical insurance, but we do have a hefty deposit saved up for buying a house, and we're both willing to dip into that if it'll help.

That sounds awful I think I'm right in saying that you are entitled to a second opinion on the NHS, so it might be worth asking your GP about this.

I don't think complaining would affect your treatment - it shouldn't do. IME if anything it tends to improve it!

Did you get much response on your epi thread?

Have you requested a copy of your notes? They should say if it was an epi or a tear

A gynae appt should only cost 100-200 quid I would think

Actually, the notes thing is another thing that I'm dealing with. I am having emotional problems after the birth as well as the physical.
I've just been sent a form to get my notes from my hospital. I need to have my form witnessed by someone who knows me, isn't a relative, and who sees me sign it. But we've just moved to a new area where nobody know me!
So I think I'm going to ask a friend from uni for help. But of course, it delays things again.
When I see the MW I'm going to ask her if she can go through the notes with me too. Although I've reached the stage where I would be happy to move back for a week to be near the hospital so that I can go through the notes and get counselling. I don't know whether the hospital where I am now will do this as I didn't deliver there.
It was very embarrassing when I spoke to the consultant that I had to tell him that I thought I'd been cut but had been told that I'd teared. I don't think it helped my credibility, and he asked me twice whether I'd been sewn up, so I'm not sure whether he believed me there either.

Birth trauma assoc may be worth a look if you've not already seen it

Is your GP sympathetic? Perhaps you could ask him for a counselling referral

I am so at the way you have been treated and I'm not surprised you are still suffering emotionally, let alone physically.

I went through my birth notes with a consultant at the hospital and found it very helpful emotionally and it helped me to fill in the gaps where I had been unconscious. Your notes should say whether you had an episiotomy so at least you will know one way or the other. It may be best to request this at the hospital where you gave birth but failing that, your MW ought to be able to help.

I think you are completely within your rights to complain about the gyn - he treated you very insensitively and shouldn't be allowed to do that to women. I wouldn't worry about being labelled a neurotic patient, if anything they are likely to be extra careful of offending you again. I would save your money for your deposit and get an NHS referral unless it is going to take a long time. If you want to go private here is the link for the Royal College of Obs and Gyns how to get a private referral

HTH
nut

I don't know if my GP is sympathetic, we've only just moved into the area, so I've only seen him once. When I mentioned the problem, he didn't examine me or anything, just said that things should have healed by now and therefore he was going to refer me.
I know that the hospital where I delivered has counselling available, but I don't know whether a hospital where I live now, where I haven't delivered and that doesn't have my notes, would be able/willing to.
I have become obsessed with birth generally, and I'm now insanely jealous of anyone who has delivered and can have sex normally.
I knew that my OP delivery was going to be difficult, but I worked so hard to have an active labour and prevent an instrument delivery. I can't help reading up about everything and I found out that 95% of OP babies turn during 1st stage labour. I keep going over and over it, and I think that everyone thinks that I didn't deliver naturally because I didn't work hard enough during labour; even though I pushed so hard I had diarrhea and gave myself piles. All the "natural birth" books and websites make me feel that it's my fault, even though I followed the advice to the letter and had a MW who took me through all the positions etc.

Oh MrsTM, I felt just like you until I had been through my notes, like a failure and totally obsessed with birth and jealous of everyone who had an easier time than me. All I can say is that although you may feel let down by your body (I did), you did your best to have a natural birth but something was not quite right maybe with DD position or another factor beyond your control. Remember a lot of women died in childbirth before we had proper medical/MW care. You did really well to labour with OP DD as it can be much more painful.

And although it is in your thoughts a lot, I shouldn't think anyone else cares a fig how you gave birth or is judging you at all. No one would think you didn't work hard enough. I bet your DH is really proud of you (have you asked him?)

You really do need to talk this through with a professional asap. I also found it helped to go through it all in detail with my DH.

Look after yourself

can only agree with all the great advice you have had

get a second opinion, privately if you can

obsession re the birth might point to something like PTSD or some sort of birth trauma

definitely worth getting in touch with the birth trauma association

your gynae sounds like he has not taken on board the enormous impact the birth and the aftermath has had on your life

hope you get some help x

DH is horrified at what I went through, and certainly doesn't think that I didn't work hard at labouring. His first words to me after DD was born were "we're never doing that again; I couldn't cope!", and he hasn't changed his mind.
We discussed the possiblility of a birth like DD's when I was pregnant and I told him that if normal childbirth failed that I wanted a CS. He warned me then that if the doctor wanted to do an instrument delivery that he'd side with the doctor as he'd be too afraid that he was putting me and DD at risk if he didn't. And that's what happened.
Now when I get upset, most of the time he's sypathetic, and he certainly doesn't push the issue of sex in any way. But sometimes he gets frustrated with me for being so upset all the time, and I think that part of it is because he feels that he let me down, and that makes him very defensive.
I certainly wish that he'd taken my side and also pushed for a CS.

oh what a shame

it shouldn;t be about taking sides, or feeling you let yourself down or anyone down..sometimes things happen in labour and delivery that we just cannot get a handle on at the time, and looking back in hindsight, it is easy to say, i should have said / done this, DH should have done/ said this

while the drama of the birth is unfolding around you, it is hard to stop and say , wait, lets do it this way....

i really think you should see someone about the scar, preferably a female gynae, who might have more empathy, and also speak to someone as you are are obviously really affected by the birth expereince

Oh, poor you, what a shame this miserable git treated you so badly. Ask your GP for a referral to another consultant (your GP needs to know this one is awful).

Firstly, poor you re. the gynae. I would explain your feelings to the GP and find someone more sympathetic.

Secondly, vaginal scarring which is deep into muscles can take up to 18 months to 2 years to heal FULLY. (This is what my (FABULOUS gynae - if you live in Somerset I can give you details!) gynae said.) With my first, I was VERY painful during sex until around 18 months - but then it was okay. So it is still REALLY early.

I would not remotely consider surgery until you have waited a lot longer.

Secondly, if you DO have another baby it is possible that you will rip to pieces again which is worth bearing in mind. I shredded nicely with both births and enjoy a close and intimate regular ongoing relationship with my lovely Gynaecologist.

p.s. oral sex is very good

Hi MP,
I'm glad you feel like that about surgery too. When I first went in the GYN was (I felt) very gung-ho about surgery. I'd always been keen on the idea (DH less so), I suppose as a definitive "fix", but even so I was surprised that he brought it up without examining me. In fact, I was the person who brought up other potential solutions.
I have the feeling that he had diagnosed me on paper, and decided that I fitted his perferred surgery technique, and that when I didn't have the band of scar tissue that he didn't care anymore.
[whisper] 6 months seems like an awful long time with sex already though, 18 months seems like an eternity [stop whispering]
I suppose I should be grateful that BFing and a dreadful delivery haven't competely squashed my libido and try to have fun together weithout the hope that we'll try penetration.

PS don't live in Somerset sadly, I'm tempted to move there now though!

So sorry to hear about your situation, I hope you find a sympathetic gynae soon.

I just wanted to say that I had a straight forward episiotomy with my first, and sex was very painful/impossible until six months after the birth. I went to see a Doctor after 4 months, to check that I'd been stitched up properly and had healed okay. I had, it was just the scar tissue was very sensitive. It takes a long time to heal. It sounds like your cut/tear was more serious than mine though, so it could be that your scar needs more time to heal.

I went on to have two more babies, totally naturally and didn't even tear either time. Every labour is different, so please don't let your experience put you off doing it again - it won't be the same as before.

so sorry, that sounds awful, do please get another opinion and keep pushing til something is done
it's so easy for some doctors to dismiss these kinds of symptoms and pain - a friend of mine had pain after the birth for years and eventually a gp prescribed her some antibiotics in case it was an infection that hadn't shown up on any tests - after years of pain, it cleared completely in 2 days
can your gp help with a private referral or just phone up bupa for their nearest clinic details?

Oh Mrs. T - I haven't read all of this thread, but I feel for you so much.
I was also completely butchered during birth & the aftermath (they lied to me about giving me an episiotomy too ). However, i have now had reconstructive surgery & am very happy with the result!

More pertinently. I also work in health & Social Services & deal with a lot of complaints re. medical negligence. The people who really manage to cut through the red tape & get results are those who shout loudly & stamp their feet. And they are also the people who get treated decently in the future as well, as (& I know this might not sit easy with you) they do go down as "awkward customers" & therefore are treated with kidd gloves. Which is all to the good IMO.

Your gynae sounds like an utter plonker who shouldn't be practising with vulnerable women like yourself.

I suggest you call the patient liason servie at your local hospital & not only make a copmplaint but demand that they arrange for you to see another Gynae. And be totally obnoxious & make a complete nuisance of youself. At least they will remember you. Oh, & a threat to go to the local press if they don't help usually gets results too! (I know that sounds trivial, but it really does work)

I didn't have sex for 18 months after giving birth, for similar reasons to yourself, but believe me, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I wish you the best of luck.
XXX

Sorry to read your story - it sounds awful.
Had to have 20-odd stitiches after ds1 which really screwed me up for 5.5 months afterwards. It took nearly 9 months to get over it. Was offered surgery (when I finally plucked up the courage to do something about it) to cut out the scar tissue, but couldn't handle the idea of allowing them to do it to me again.
I persevered with our sex life, taking pain killers and having hot baths if necessary and it did eventually get better. Dh (as ever was very kind too.
Roll on 3.7 years and I now have ds2. Didn't tear second time and a week after he was born actually felt so much better "down there" than I had since ds1 was born. Ds2 is 4.5 months and things actually seem to have finally healed and everything feels like it's finally back to where it should be.
So I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't necessarily rule out another - it might sort you out (as it did me. In the meantime I'd complain (I really regret not doing this). If nothing else you'll learn from opening it all up again and talking it through with a spectrum of different people. Then you're much better armed for next time.

Thank you for all your support.

I saw a female GP last week: the good news-
She listened to me.
She co-signed my application for my delivery notes.
She is happy to get me a 2nd opinion (will do this in a month when I go back, by then she'll have the notes from the awful GYN).
If I do conceive again, she'll send me to an OB re: elective CS.
The not-so-good-
She told me that she had 3 CS (so?).
She told me to look on the bright side, as it could be worse, I could be incontinent like her SIL .

She isn't keen on the "hammock" surgery in case it makes things worse. It isn't the regular Fenton procedure as far as I can tell. DH has been lovely this weekend and very supportive. We even tried some alternative "fun" this weekend . It's been a while since I've been able to get things out of my head enough to do that.

PS if I do get PG again (fertility probs too; this while getting a family business has been quite an adventure), DH is very keen on elective CS. I'm not so sure, crazy eh? I suppose I'd like the chance to do it properly. Ideally, I'd like what I wanted last time; I give it my best shot to deliver naturally, but if anything goes wrong I get a CS, no questions asked.
There have been times when I want to make a huge banner saying that instrument births are butchery and march up and down outside the hospital where I delivered...