Caesarean = Failure? Article in the Times...

[SweetyDarling]

Times article about feelings of failure after ceasarean birth
Interesting comments and countering article as well.

Yes, it's so exhausting having to recover from a c-section and not being able to sleep for weeks, I felt like the living dead....moved house 3 weeks after to boot...!

But someone, a dr infact, told me although it is the "natural" way, when humans started walking upright millions of years ago, their heads became disproportionately big in relation to their hips and their hips didn't widen to accomodate this so perhaps the process now is harder than nature intended. Plus, doing things the "natural" isn't necessarily the best way to do things.

Sorry, playing devils's advocate here but just don't see why there should be any kind of stigma attached to it but then I'm not pregant yet and can't vouch for how I feel when I am (fingers crossed!)

no kids. About to start TTC but would have serious doubts about doing it if I thought I couldn't have a c-section. Don't hate me!!

Plus, as happened with dd, babies born through c-section can develop initial breathing difficulties as the fluid is not squeezed out of their lungs as in a vaginal birth...nature usually is best...everything in nature is designed to have its own natural pattern, and as with everyhing in modern life, we seem to be losing our symbiosis with nature and are all falling a bit out of synch...just look at us, living on top of each other in tiny concrete boxes when we should be free to roam and have strong ties with the land like the Australian Aboriginals...

I wouldn't describe labour as hours and hours in agony, and I've given birth 3 times without drugs other than entonox. I used TENS and then had waterbirths. I'm not incontinent either.

You can be in a lot of pain after a c section and need strong drugs. Sometimes these drugs make people sick. Can you imagine vomiting after a c section? Not funny. You can't drive for 6 weeks, and may have trouble picking up your baby if you're unlucky.

I opted to have the pain before the birth rather than after. Yes it did hurt but I felt in control and was never in distress. It is not like going to the dentist - where I would opt for drugs every time - more like running a marathon.

fineanddandy,

please look into some good antenatal prep classes and read some books, esp michel odent, ina may gaskin and sheila kitzinger (oops, have i offended sqeezeddonna?!) before you think a c section is a pain free way.

p.s. most drs and hosps wont just give you a c section because you dont want to tear.....also, the babys skull actually moulds on birth, that is why their skulls are soft and they have the 'soft spot' (fontanel) on their heads, and i think the dr who told you about head size is wrong.

good luck ttc, hope you make some informed choices in birth.

Cx

have had 2 c sections, neither out of choice. I am very sad I didn't experience a vaginal delivery but I don't feel at all guilty. The sections happened to make sure the babies were Ok. I did the best I could for them. Not my fault my body wasn't playing ball with my hippychick notions of a lovely waterbirth.
Do what you have to do to keep you both healthy, that's all that really matters.
personal preferences are secondary.
Given a choice no one should choose a caesarian, it is more risky than a vaginal birth.

I think you misunderstood me, sandcastles. I used the 40 weeks as an average (my pregnancy was 38 weeks) and meant that compared to 40 weeks + the rest of your life, the 1 day of labour is a small part of motherhood. I'm sad that women feel guilty about this, being a mother seems to be so much about guilt, and I don't think we help ourselves.

When I told friends I was having a c-section (I didn't tell them why I had to, or even that I had to, because it wasn't something I wanted to talk about to everyone, and people talk to each other) a couple of my female friends came out with the dangers of c-sections, the talk of major operations and long recovery and vast pain and how I wouldn't bond with the baby. I now think this was pretty mean. The operation was a little tricky for me because it took hours for the anaesthetist to find a way around my slight scoliosis, but it didn't feel like a major operation, even if it was one - I've had more than a dozen major operations. The pain was not extreme - I was using Advil and nothing else by the end of day 2, and that's not something that's happened with other operations, which usually saw me on morphine for a week. My recovery was easy. I do agree that people should make informed choices and hope this is part of that. I think whatever people choose, trying to frighten them, or telling them it interferes with bonding with their baby (even if there are cases where women who had c-sections didn't bond, that doesn't mean it was because of the c-sections, there are women who had vaginal births who didn't bond) isn't helpful. No one, surely, wants new mothers to feel guilty.

macneil, yes, I think i did misinterupt your post re 40 weeks. Read in a hurry as off out the door at the time....

Haven't read all the comments etc but what my horrid births into perspecitive was having a baby with undiagnosed acid reflux for 6 months who screamed unless being held in a certain position and only slept for about 8 hours out of 24. The next birth I had was fantastic (after 3 bad ones) partly I think because I didn't care anymore (so relaxed about going way overdue, the inevitable induction, having a huge baby, them panicking about blood sugar levels etc) - far more worried about gong through a miserable 6 months again!

Our society is so achievement focused, I'm sure that adds to the pressure of having a "perfect birth" when our medical care just isn't geared up to most women having a "natural birth"

I guess what concerns me the most is that this idea of what the ideal birth is has been so drummed into women in the UK that other options seem wholey unnapealing.
I have never heard of a mother in Australia being encouraged to give birth without pain relief, in fact when one of my cousins did, most of her friends and family were absolutely shocked! Her brother was even furious at her husband for encourgaing her into what was seen by the rest of the group as an archaic practise.
I just think that groups like the NCT (for philospphical reasons) and the NHS (for financial reasons) have lead a campaign to convince women that there is one good way and that other options are unfortunate requirements if the mother has failed at the "proper" approach.
I don't blame the mothers for feeling like failures for having c-sections, I blame the system which gave them that idea.

I think we are too hard on ourselves, birth is not something that can be planned to the last minute, it is a natural process which doesn't always go according to plan. There is however still a definite stigma about having a c-section. I have been told (jokingly and not so jokingly) that I was obviously too posh to push, which was extremely upsetting given the nature of my birth experince (emergency c-section for brow presentation and foetal distress in brief). I am having an elective this time around and have had comments from relatives about why can't I just do it naturally. My MIL acted very disappointed when I told her I was probably having another section. This is not a helpful attitude!
I can understand some people feeling a failure for having a c-section as it is seen as the easy option by many, and a surprising number of women talk about how vital it is to experience the pain of childbirth otherwise you haven't really "had" your baby just had it surgically removed.
I have to agree with MacNeil too, my recovery from the section was amazingly fast. I was only on morphine for one day and then I was just on basic painkillers. The damage to my pelvic floor from the hours of labour before the section has, however, been rather more long lasting!

Hi FineandDandy

I wanted a c-section from the outset and tried to argue for one at my first consultant appointment (there is a history of women having c-sections in my family) but my consultant wasn't in agreement. Reluctantly, I agreed to go down the natural route and guess what? I ended up with a c-section after 24 hours of painful, fruitless labour. Despite, I have to say a fantastic and thoroughly professional team of midwives who did all they could for me to enable a vaginal delivery.

I have to say that my expereince of c-section was amazing. I was awake throughout, my DH was right beside me and I saw my baby immediately. I fed him and cuddled him too. It was all good. Thankfully, I eventually got the birth I wanted. I recovered amazingly quickly, was discharged after 3 days, had no trouble with my scar and would have another c-section tomorrow. Based upon the expereince of myself and many women I know who've had one too, I would also advise anyone else to go have one too.

Also, as I was untouched "and as before down below", DH and I were able to resume our sex life with no problems whatsoever. So everyone was happy

Just as it is a total myth that it is axiomatic that natural childbirth will result in incontinence and 3rd/4th degree tears, it is also a myth that a c-section will mean that you can't walk, can't sleep or are in agony and are on morphine for 6 months post partum. It very much depends on the individual, their body and their mental attitude.

Perhaps I was one of the lucky ones, but then again, there are lots of women who have horrendous tales to tell of natural childbirth and they will tell you they found it far from a fulfilling epereience.

Oh, and BTW, I wouldn't look at Sheila Kitzinger books if you're seeking an objective view to help you decide whether to go for a vaginal birth or a c-section. She's an archetypal American late 1960s hippy and a militant natural childbirth advocate. I'd say she's the chief exponent of the view that you are not a proper woman or mother if you don't give birth vaginally.

In fact, I'd say don't read too many books. Stick with fairly innocuous stuff like something from Boots/Mothercare. They'll contain all the basics with no overt agenda. My feelings are that it's always best to be in touch with your own natural instincts at times like this. So my advice would be stick to your guns and do what YOU feel you want/need to do to be comfortable and happy.

I really can't understand this "if you haven't given birth vaginally you're not the complete woman/parent" approach. This is what has given rise to the woman in The Times article feeling like she does. It's shocking.

I believe that every woman should have the right to have the sort of birth she wants. Isn't a c-section just another birth choice? Why do people find it so objectionable?

It's like going on holiday, is the journey really that important in the grand scheme of things? Surely all that matters is that you arrive safely and have an absolutely fantastic time when you get there.

At the end of the day, all that matters is that you have a happy, healthy pregnancy and a happy healthy baby, safely delivered. Then you can focus on being the best parent you possibly can and having the best relationship you possibly can with your child.

Good luck with TTC FineandDandy and I wish you all the luck in the future.

interesting

finding squeezeddonna;s comments really upsetting and patronising actually

i had an emergecency c.s after a failed induction and a vaginal delivery after a spontaneous labour

the way i felt after each birth could not have been any different

i am one of the 'chattering classes who has read too much sheila kitzinger' , and frankly, that is really offensive

birth is more than the hours you spend in the delivery suite, or at home or in the operating theatre..it is the start of a new way of being, as a mother, it is life changing and to deny the power of the way the baby arrives in the world is nonsensical...

giving birth can have an enormously profound effect on a woman, good and bad

the WHO suggests a c.s rate of around 10 % or so, and yet in some hospitals it is almost 3 times as high...and as someone else has pointed out, can really almost a 1/4 of women or babies be at serious risk of death or massive trauma without a c.s

c.s was origionally a life saving procedure, not a birth choice..

the medicalisation of birth, the conveyor belt way birth is timed and monitored sets many women up for a birth they don;t want

i certainly felt a failure after my c.s, my body had not done what it should, i had let down myself and my baby....so what if that is irrational ? that is how i felt, how many other women felt..

i volunteer for the Birth Trauma Association and all the contacts i have had so far are from women feeling low and traumatised after c.sections.....

to think of vaginal delivery in terms only of agonising pain and incontinence is to overlook the amazing power and strength that a birthing woman has ,

educating yourself about the reality of birth is really important in my opinion , not solely the physical act of birth, but the massive psychological and hormonal changes that occur....it is really an amazing and miraculous process.

as regards the pelvic floor....it is not just giving birth that affects the pelvic floor, but the pregnancy itself...and there is plenty you can do to help prevent tearing and keep the perineum intact.

"Stupid woman. More clap trap from the chattering classes who've read far too many Shiela Kitzinger books. Why doesn't she focus on the fact that she's got a healthy baby who's been safely delivered? Where do these people get off on dwelling in the past. She should focus on being the best mother she can possibly be to her child and get over it! She should be careful - her negative energy might curdle her breast milk!"

SD-- have oyu any any any idea how offensive that comment is to a woman who has suffered PND after a bad birth?

i felt unbearable guilt that after my baby arrived by emergency c.s, that i felt like i had not given birth

being told that my feelings are stupid claptrap makes me very angry and shows a complete lack of empathy and compassion.

try focusing on being the best mother you can when you cannot stand up straight and hold your baby for 2 days due to copious amounts of morphine and wake up after your c,s in a pool of blood

and are then crippled by horrific PND for 4 years

thats exactly how i felt about ds's delivery and i am certainly not one of "the chattering classes" you spend 9m being told that childbirth is the most natural thing in the world, labour is called that for a reason, women have been doing it for years etc is it any wonder that you feel like youve failed?

I think I find the article a bit self-indulgent really. So birth didn't live up to her expectations - well it rarely does and actually it really doesn't matter. I think it says it all when she says she had never failed at anything - birth is not an exam you pass or fail.

If you have a great birth, great. If you don't, you have the rest of your life to get on with and create many new wonderful moments with your baby. Were it not for c sections, those opportunities would not exist for many.

C section has saved more lives than any other surgical procedure in history. Birth may be over medicalised for many but for me, a c section was right. My daughter was scheduled to weigh 10 lbs and had a huge head. My sister went through vaginal birth for my nephew who was similarly proportioned and ended up having to have reconstructive surgery three months after his birth. I was very keen to avoid this so had an elective c section - right decision as it turned out she had the cord wrapped round her neck twice.

Lovely experience and I feel very lucky.

Sometimes I think people don't have enough to worry about if they want to spend time feeling bad about having had a c section. This isn't meant to offend anyone but there is too much "should" and "ought" in birth and mothering. It would be great if everyone had a lovely vaginal birth and it would be great if everyone found bfing easy. But it doesn't always happen - either way does it really matter if everyone is alive and well at the end?

it does matter ! because for many women, becoming a mother is such an important and life altering part of their lives, that feeling like they have failed at bringing their baby into the world does matter.

for everyone who has had a c.s or a medicalised birth and have no worries or negative feelings about it...that is truly wonderful. but it does not make the feelings of other women who feel negative afterwards, any less valid.

I read part of it. I had a c section after a failed 50 hour induction. I still believe i gave birth to my own baby, a beautiful healthy little girl. In no way did I fail! My c section was a very positive experience and enabled me to bring my daughter into the world.

I think there is way too much emphasis these days on having the perfect birth and women end up with such high expectations about what their perfect wonderful birth s is going to be like. So many of us are setting ourselves up to "fail". I fin that really sad.