Am I the only one who has no faith in midwives - contentious topic I know....

[RedFraggle]

I had a bit of a nightmare delivery and ended up with an emergency c-section so possibly my views are slightly warped...

I am having an elective this time around for various reasons, but I have to admit that I felt a huge flush of relief when I realised it meant I wouldn't have to rely on any midwives as I have no faith or trust in them at all. Can I be the only woman on Mumsnet who would really prefer NOT to have midwives involved in their birth? All the threads I have seen seem very pro-midwife and I was just curious...

doulauklaw....where in the world are you? are you in the UK?

find your posts really interesting

Hi Lulamama,

I'm in Scotland, I've just been to your website, will email you in a moment.

okey doke !

RedFraggle - what an interesting thread you have started here. Now I know how HVs on mumsnet must feel

AS many of you know I am a midwife but I know I am a bloody good one

I am appalled by the treatment women have had to endure here. Some if it is due to lack of midwives and pressure on the service. In order to imporove that women must complain to their MPs and put pressure on the government to improve maternity services.

Some of the experiences are due to midwives who have no right to be in the profession. Unfortunately women do not write and complain. On the whole complaints highlight issues but unfortunately that route did not work for Aloha, although action was obviously taken in the background.

There is also lack of understanding of the role of the midwife evident here. Midwives are the 'experts' in normality. Doctors have very little knowledge of normality. They are the experts where there are problems. Doctors and midwives should work in partnership for the good of the woman and her family. They should be a team.

It is so sad to hear that women feel they have to choses and elective C/S to avoid contact with midwives. I understand your reasons RedFraggle but it is so sad that has been the outcome. Had you had a better experience you would have had the confidence to attempt VBAC which may have been successful and put some of your fears to bed.
A brow baby cannot deliver vaginally but that may not have been a factor in this pregnancy.

I have not taken this thread personally at all. I have often felt that I have gained lots of knowledge from women's experiences here and it has improved my practice.

I know I was born to be a midwife though and didn't just randomly pick a profession. I have seen midwives who just pick up the paycheck and who need challenged. They are in the minority though but the impact they have is immense.

RedFraggle, I had no confidence in my midwives for my third pregnancy and therefore hired a brilliant doula and had only her and DH present at home for a wonderful homebirth. And that was after two Caesarians. What about it?!!

Lulumama, did you get my email?

I am going private specialist next time. Delivered him but it should have been a c-section. Lots of pain even though it's been a year. I'm in NZ, so had same midwife all through pregnancy and delivery and it didn't make a difference.

I should add, if I can get my head sorted enough to actually try for a next time. DS may end up an only child

i didn;t doulauklaw. try lulumama 21 @hotmail . com

no gaps!

vizzbizz, have you been in touch with anyone for help re how you feel

sheila kitzingers birth crisis or the birth trauma association ? can do links for them...

I had a horrendous experience with first labour and birth - midwives were all horrible, hardly said a word to me and it was awful.

Second labour totally different - same hospital but different midwives and it was amazing how much 'better' it made everything. The midwife who delivered DS2 was utterly lovely and perfect.

Ceolas, the reason I say I have no faith in midwives as a profession is because they really can mean the difference between life and death. A plumber doesn't usually have this power over people!
I could have lost my baby due to the delay from the midwives who were with me not spotting the problem. That is why I find it very difficult to imagine trusting them again with this second pregnancy.

Elf, funnily enough my DH has been following the thread with interest and it was actually his idea I post it in the first place (probably fed up with me talking about it all with him!)
He suggested I could try for a home birth with an independant midwife, but I am just too scared of something going wrong. Evrything went wrong so fast at the hospital that it really worries me being at home in case it goes pear shaped and I can't get to the hospital in time.
Part of me would love to try for a VBAc as I am worried about the effect of my having a c-section on my dd who will just be 2. I am bothered that I won't be able to pick her up etc and I don't want the arrival of her baby brother to be more of an upset to her than necessary.
But then when I try to get my head around the idea of being in labour, I flashback to what happened last time and have a mental freak out.
I think the worst memory I have of the whole thing is being on the bed as they ran down the corridor to theatre shouting at me not to push. Just typing this is making me feel so upset, tearful and basically bloody
terrified I can hardly bear to keep still, and that is the problem I have everytime I talk about it or even try to mentally walk through a positive birth. My brain picks THAT image to replay.
Aaaargh!

Redfraggle, HUGS!!! I understand you are feeling very vulnerable.

Why not make contact with some IM in your area? Even if you don't hire one they should be more than happy to have a chat on the phone with you. Perhaps it might help to give you a bit of added strength.

Independent Midwives

Thinking of you!

RedFraggle - have you been through your notes of your last delivery with the consultant and/or head of the labour ward? By that I mean actually discussed what happened with them?

Muminfife,

I am reading Birthing from within just now, isn't it wonderful? Have you also read Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering?

Will I find you on Scottish Doula Network?

Thanks for the support!

Mears, I had a meeting with my consultant a few weeks after the birth and he went through all my notes and explained everything. I was also referred for counselling just after the birth as I confessed to my dh that I was having nightmares and flashbacks and he snitched on me to the health visitor. I probably wouldn't have got help myself, but it was for the best as the health visitor was fantastic and sorted out the debrief and counselling etc for me. I think it was all a bit soon though as I hadn't really got my head around what had happened. It's only been over that last few months as the big day approaches that I've really had to think about delivery and that's when I realised I don't have any faith in midwives. I hadn't even thought in terms of blame for dd delivery as I am a big believer in the idea that sometimes accidents do happen and you can't always pin blame. I just accepted that I was very unlucky and the chances of it happening again are very slim. But the nearer it gets to the birth more I'm terrified of "What if it DOES happen again?" I know it's irrational... Consultant did say at the time that it was a set of very rare complications coinciding so it is very unlikely to happen again, but what if?
I think a lot of the reason I am feeling so raw about it all now is due to my being pregnant again. Knowing that this baby has to come out, and that I have to make a decision over the route is stressing me out! I just don't know what to do for the best. I had such a struggle bonding with my dd after thinking I had almost lost her that i just want this birth to be as easy as possible so that I don't jeopordise my early relationship with this baby. I just want this to be over and to be able to forget it all and get on with it.
The real bugger is dh and I have both always wanted a bigger family (3 or 4 little ones running about) but I am coping so horrendously that I think this might end up being my last.

Oh my goodness - I've written an essay - so sorry, butmy head is a total jumble and I am having problems getting anything down.

Could you be re-referred for counselling now? As you said in your post the counselling may have been too soon. Personally I don't think it was too soon but needs to be revisited. Apologies if you have told us already, but when is your baby due?

What you could do is meet the labour ward manager and discuss how you would be cared for if you did chose to labour. That is what happens in my area. It means that the labour ward co-ordinators are aware of issues of concern and they can ensure that every step is taken to allay those concerns.

I'm due in early June, I have considered going and chatting to the midwifery team as I am at a different hospital this time so it will all be totally new to me. (the move is not related to what happened with dd's birth, just circumstantial)
The only thing that concerns me is I have such a long list of things that I would like / not like, that I worry I am setting myself up to fail before I begin if you see what I mean? With dd I was totally open to anything as it had already gone against my dream birth plan before I even got to the hospital, so I just thought I'd go along with whatever happened.
This time around I'm so paranoid already!
I did ask about a VBAC and what they do etc. Hospital policy is that I wouldn't be allowed to go over my due date by more than a few days and I would have 6 hours to deliver in. I don't know if there is more as it was only an informal chat at my 12 week booking in.
I am a bit scared of the whole episiotemy, forceps, ventouse idea etc as my pelvic floor is totally screwed from dd (because she was stuck for so long) so I don't want any more meddling down there - it took months of physio just to be able to run after my daughter without any incidents...
Then of course, I'm worried about having a huge panic attack style freak out in the labour room if I feel out of control.
I am sort of tempted to say that if I go into labour before my c-section date that I will have a bash, but my list of "rules" is absurd even to me - and they're MY rules!!

I think you are right though Mears, I should probably go for a proper discussion before my consultant appointment at 36 weeks.

If it is of any help to you to know, it is possible to have a dream plan as long as there is acknowledgement that things do not always go to plan therefore it is knowing what will be suggested as an alternative which can be helpful.

I am aware of a lady who wishes a waterbirth after 2 previous C/S. A plan has been agreed with this lady, the consultant and the senior midwife of the labour ward.

Things have been discussed such as that labour will be spontaneous. If the waters break before labour starts for example, then syntocinon will not be used. That would mean a repeat C/S if contractions did not sstart on their own. The lady is agreeable to that.

There will not be continuous fetal monitoring however a tracing of the baby's heartrate will be done periodically. Again this is with agreement.

To me the most important person is the woman and discussing what she envisages for labour. As well as trying to achieve that, it is about agreeing what to do if things are not going to plan.

My personal view is that labour should start by itself and that this could mean waiting until 42 weeks. If there is no sign of labour by then, a repeat C/S would be the preferable option. It is far better not to be induced (although it can be done).

If labour stops progressing midway, it is again better to avoid syntocinon. The question has to be asked why has it stopped rather than just pushing it on with artificial hormones.

I don't think that you will find that labour should only last 6 hours - it will be that there has been good progress in that time. That needs more discussion.

You could also state that it the baby is not descending in second stage you would not wish to have an instrumental delivery but repeat C/S.

There are lots of things that could be discussed so that you know what support you would receive and what suggestions may be made.

To me that is best done as a separate appointment with the consultant and labour ward manager. You might have a consultant midwife available at your hospital - she/he can also help with this discussion.

Please do not feel that you would have an unachievable dream plan - it is good for everyone to know what that plan is and to agree with you a solution if the plan strays off course. Good luck with whatever you decide

mears

you are truly a midwife aren;t you? in the truest sense of the word

Thank you so much Mears, that does sound incredibly hopeful for me. I am seeing a midwife next week (for anti-d jabs - urgh) so I will ask her who I need to contact at my local hospital. Then I can arrange a meeting to discuss what I would like to have happen and see if we can make a plan that we are all happy with! fingers crossed - you may see me on a VBAC thread yet... )other than lurking

RF..if you want to talk VBAC, off board, please get in touch, CAT me or mail me

lulumama 21 @ hotmail. com

Mears and Lulumama - you truly are worth your weight in gold here! Don't ever stop posting.

Like Lulumam, please don't hesitate to contact me if you want further information or would like to trial run your plan for a response.

I can give you pointers midwife wise - Lulu has great advice VBAC wise.

Altnernatively we can do it via mumsnet board - whatever suits you best.

I think having the discussion with everyone involved prior to the event is definitely the way to go. I hope the professionals involved will be supportive.